Recovering off towbar tongue w/ shackle

rowinz · Post by **rowinz** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:43 am

Perhaps a stupid question, how dodgy is recovering off a towbar if you replace towball with heavy duty shackle? To me it would be a hell of a lot better than the ball, but most bars are towing rated to 2-3tonne...would that be the towball constraint or the actual bar design?

To me this option would be better than those four bolt recovery hooks and mounts that guy sells on Trade Me, which mounts on the the rear crossmember. Some of those cross members are pretty flimsy. I was gonna mount my rear hook on that until I had a good look underneath. Now gonna modify the towbar to have a removable hook, with some bracing too. Got stuck undoing the (rusted) 12 bolts that hold the towbar on.

hmmm...

ajnacey · Post by **ajnacey** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:06 am

Hey Rowan,

At least two things wrong with the shackel idea. Firstly, bugger doing up a shackel in a bog or river with dirty running water and s*^ everywhere, and secondly hooks are designed to straighten if too much load is on it to minimise damage to your truck etc.

No idea about the removable hooks etc sorry.

Cheers, AJ

Sadam_Husain · Post by **Sadam_Husain** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:52 pm

If its a a cruiser or prado (as per your signature) you'd expect the towbar to be constructed to have a reasonable load rating?

The back crossmember on the rear of the chassis is usually made of 2 peices joined in the middle where the 4 hole mounts are, I wouldn't use it as a recovery point on a cruiser unless the crossmember is strengthend.

All my old 40 series and my 70 series cruiser have hooks mounted upside down on the bottom of the rear chassis rails, the holes are usually there and dont require any drilling.

coxsy · Post by **coxsy** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:16 pm

if the chassis is thin, use 5 or6 mm flat bar with another bolt as well .
piece of flat bar drill holes for hook bolts then same spacing drill another , hold on chassis drill one hole fit bolt drill other two one flat under hook other in chassis fit bolts.

smurf182 · Post by **smurf182** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:23 pm

It depends on the type of recovery. Straight towing with a rigid rope should be fine, snatch recoveries with an elastic strop; absolutley not!

monstr · Post by **monstr** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:05 pm

We have had a few newbys come out on club runs prior to joining to see if they like it or not,If they dont have rated tow hooks we have used this method quite often with no problems,But in saying that its a judgement call at the time .If there well bogged Both Mudzilla and i now wont snatch out trucks we prefer to just winch them out as this is more controlled and less stress on both trucks.Regarding those Pintal hooks mounted to the rear crossmember i had one on my Nissan a few years ago,It had been strenghtend with 6mm plate and redrilled with bigger bolts,While snatching out a patrol who wasnt stuck to bad the pintal hook parted company with the truck and missed a bystanders head by inches at a million MPH.since then i havent trusted that type of set up.In my opinion dont mess about with them fit some rated hooks properly... cheers

xj · Post by xj » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:01 am

What is wrong with feeding the strop under the towbar mounting box section, running it back up and over between the box section and the body, then loopining ot over the towball/tongue. Nothing is pulling on the towball, all your pulling is the tongue back toward the front of the vechicle, and the box section.

Another question regarding the "hayman reece" (??? or whatever theyre called???) reciever. Pull the pin, remove the towball/tongue/internal box section sleeve, insert the strop, slide the pin back through and clip it...... youve got the strop pinned in place.... anything "proven" to be wrong with this method? (it came up in the pub one afternoon)

mudzilla · Post by **mudzilla** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:51 am

Nothing wrong with the whole snatch towing thing at all...till something breaks...Then all you have to deal with is shit flying through the air at a hundered miles an hour.. :!:

You never know when a hook or tow bar or strop will let go,,and when it dose there is a huge amount of energy waiting to let fly and take out whatever gets in the way...hope you dont mind if I run and hide while you find out how strong your gear is...Sorry Ive seen it go wrong and the damage..Just my 2c worth

Cloggy_NZ · Post by **Cloggy_NZ** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:54 pm

First and foremost, the reason to use proper rated hooks is as stated in an earlies post above - when the load gets to high they will straighten out and let the strop go, no metal bits go flying. Using a shackle through the towball hole is not recommended for snatch towing. If the pin was to break the rest of the shackle still attached to the strop will go flying. Car body panels will not stop it from coming hurtling inside a car and severely injuring or even killing the passengers if they are in the way. A strop by itself has enough energy built up in it when it lets go to take out both front and back windows in one swoop (speaking from personal experience here, it happened to me.)
There is nothing wrong with looping the strop around the towbar if you don't mind buying new strops every week. This puts the abrasive loads during a snatch on the webbing of the strop itself. This is the bit which is designed to stretch, while stretching whilst wrapped around the towbar it created enormous amounts of friction. They eyes of the strops don't have the leather bits sewn in there just to look good, they are there for a reason. How do you tear a piece of paper neatly? You hold it against an edge and pull down. Picture your strop as being that piece of paper.
The Hayman Reese tow bars with the removable pin are safe as. Just use a decent piece of 50x50 box with at least a 3mm wall thickness to make the removable recovery hook. I welded another piece of 3/8 steel on top where the hook bolts through to give it some decent strenght. The pin itself is at least as strong as the two bolts holding the hook on. It is of much larger diameter than the hook bolts and although there is only one pin it is in double shear. As long as the box section you put into the receiver is a neat fit that pin will never break before the hook lets go or the strop snaps. The towbar itself needs to be mounted properly of course.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:35 pm

i drilled an extra hole in my towbar tongue and had a sleeve made
for the towball hole and now jst put the rated hook on before
goin on any trips.....nice and easy :wink:

monstr · Post by **monstr** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:36 pm

Quote"there is nothing wrong with looping a strop around a towbar" Sorry but i totaly dissagree with this comment,For one thing how many towbars are rated at 8-10,000lb plus,I have seen to many dodgy towbars installed by companys who are supposed to be experts in this field,They are not designed to take the shock loading that snatching will cause,My thoughts..Steve

4WDbits · Post by **4WDbits** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:50 pm

The problem with snatch recoveries is that everyone tends to get into the 'A little bit harder should do it' attitude. What you need for a snatch recovery (if you do one at all) depends on the situation everytime.

rollypolly · Post by **rollypolly** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:30 pm

young and dum

doddzee · Post by **doddzee** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:38 pm

rollypolly wrote:what a joke this is

if ya dont know about how to pull/snatch, on any hook/tow bar why r you
what a joke this is.

as for rated hooks etc did our forfathers have rated hooks

I think the only joke is your last post

No our forefathers probly did not have reated hooks, but were they getting into the situations with the 4wds we have today? there is a fair bit of differect between snatching out a Patrol than an old austin or what ever out forefathers had.

Factory tow points, towballs and alot of towbars are not strong enough for the forces exerted when recovering a stuck 4wd. Sounds like 4wding with you rollypolly is an accident waiting to happen.

rollypolly · Post by **rollypolly** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:56 pm

doddzee · Post by **doddzee** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:06 pm

With your stated experiece how about you give explinations that will help people that are not in the know rather that comments like

if ya dont know about how to pull/snatch, on any hook/tow bar why r you

What do you drive rollypolly? What do you use as recovery points?

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:27 pm

Funny how every now and then some know-it-all holier-than-thou retarded butt-plug rolls on in here and starts mouthing off like he's gods gift to everyone and we should be thankful he took the time to call us names...

Why don't you piss off and come back when you're prepared to contribute something thats both worth reading and actually readable. Your abusive and frankly pathetic posts are not welcome.

Have a nice day

Steve

rollypolly wrote:a man off my skill dose,nt get stack????>>>>>>>>>>>>>

plus there matey iam an ex bushman, so i know all about load & strain on wire & chains.

plus ex fisherman so dont start on ropes and blocks.

all you towns are an accident waiting to happen?

it only gets fun after the frist roll

mudzilla · Post by **mudzilla** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:32 pm

Been there done that eh rolly...Except go to school and learn to spell.
X this x that. wow .

albundy · Post by **albundy** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:41 pm

Been there done that eh rolly...Except go to school and learn to spell

Ditto

a man off my skill dose,nt get stack????>>>>>>>>>>>>>

plus there matey iam an ex bushman, so i know all about load & strain on wire & chains.

plus ex fisherman so dont start on ropes and blocks.

all you towns are an accident waiting to happen

What skill would that be, wanking :lol:

My experience with bushman and fisherman is they are drugged fucked pissheads-an accident waiting to happen
Al (at list I put my name to it)

lilpigzuk · Post by **lilpigzuk** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:44 pm

rollypolly wrote:.

all you towns are an accident waiting to happen?

it only gets fun after the frist roll

Errr no towns here fulla. Is a Frist roll anything like a sausage roll??

<---- You are here

Post by **mike** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:49 pm

enough all ready people. Please stick to the topic.

Mike

Rangielux · Post by **Rangielux** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:21 pm

yay, Steve lives on

the voice of sensability is still alive and well

4WDbits wrote:The problem with snatch recoveries is that everyone tends to get into the 'A little bit harder should do it' attitude. What you need for a snatch recovery (if you do one at all) depends on the situation everytime.

On topic, I tend to agree with MrBits here.
After you've seen a couple of recovery strops break and do some hefty damage to a vehicle (let alone a human!) you tend to do things abit better. I've seen towbars bent after pulling off them so that cant be a good sign can it? (I'm not saying it shouldn't be done but just be carefull how much kenitic energy you throw at it). Also when using a strop try to use it in a straight line (eye to eye) whenever the strop is wrapped around some thing or twisted up etc it creates a point of weakness. heat is the other killer of the humble recovery strop, if it doesn't come out after the 2nd or 3rd time rethink it.

coxsy · Post by **coxsy** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:29 pm

we had a stuck vx cruiser once they broke 3 snatchs , to get it out question was asked way didn't they winch it out when the first broke , not to carry on and do two more , they wanted their strops replaced, got told off instead

xj · Post by xj » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:40 pm

albundy wrote:

My experience with bushman and fisherman is they are drugged fucked pissheads-an accident waiting to happen
Al (at list I put my name to it)

al, how dare you mix up bushmen/fishermen with scaffolders/riggers - shame on you.... :!:

Rolly, you go hard man. Tell us how hard that cracker is too!!!

I reckon if ya got a winch you may as well use it, as, i think monstr or zilla alluded to in an earlier post/thread.

rowinz · Post by **rowinz** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:30 pm

Thanks for the variety of responses. I have posted elsewhere that I am getting my tow bar strengthened to have a removable hook on - the box section with a pin. But I can't yet get the damn thing off cos of rusted bolts. I havent tried in earnest yet. In the short term I was intending to pull off the tongue using HD shackle (nothing gnarly expected as its a shiney family wagon - at the mo anyway...) Based on comments I shall pull gently...

But thats apparently just a big old joke to frist bushmen...

rollypolly · Post by **rollypolly** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:07 am

mudzilla wrote:Been there done that eh rolly...Except go to school and learn to spell.
X this x that. wow .

i do aright for a dislexit ###### thanks

rollypolly · Post by **rollypolly** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:28 am

yong in dum :lol:

doddzee · Post by **doddzee** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:12 am

Didnt realise i was classified as old at 22. :wink:

Your right a towbar is better than nothing but it is not ideal and rated hooks fitted properly are a far better snatch/towpoint.

The "oldies" do get out and provied hands on training
(link to last one) http://www.offroadexpress.co.nz/modules ... pic&t=3156

If you think you have something to offer why not go along and help out with the next one, but from what you have shown from you previous posts doubt anyone will listen.

An no there is no rivers up here worth exploring its all bush

rowinz post some pics of your towbar set-up and im sure you will get some feedback on appropriate ways to mount you hooks.

SupraLux · Post by **SupraLux** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:40 am

rollypolly wrote:all you oldys should plan to take the people that wont to laern out and teach them hands on. not of a bloody computer

If you'd stop shooting your mouth off and actually read around on the forum you'll realise we have regular training days for people new to 4WDing... and one of the major topics covered on any of them is vehicle recovery...

rollypolly wrote:while nice to meet ya's all, i am going to stop rubbing ya's up the wrong way now.

Damn fine idea...

Oh, and on the whole recovery issue... if its not a rated hook mounted in a safe manner then you need to make your own call as to recovery... And if you don't have rated recovery points on your vehicle you might want to consider doing that before going 4WDing...

Steve

mroffroader · Post by **mroffroader** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:32 pm

good to see your back steve :lol: