Electric or PTO winch?

[petefj40]

Thought I'd throw it out there.
I've heard some pros n cons about PTO's. But I'm interested to hear what ORE people think.
I'm sick of my cheap pos winch failing on the few times that I actually have used it.
I thought, if i get rid of it and upgrade to a superwinch. Why not look at the PTO option?
I'd appreciate any feedback.

Thanks,
Pete.

[wopass]

what it comes down to is...

are you better at fixing mechanical stuff = PTO winch
are you better at fixing electrical stuff = elecky winch

ohh and third option...

neither = your fcuked

but seriously a good name lekky is good but you need your head around the workings of them or a PTO is good but you need your head around them to so whatever floats your boat.

theres plenty of threads on the site full of arguments regarding this subject to so do a search for a laugh

[ClassicCruiserSpares]

Wopass is rite it is personal preferance but personally id have a pto any day.

[petefj40]

After starting this thread I thought. I could of just searched other threads about it. I'm sure you're right wopass. This topic would of been thrashed out many times before. Sorry about that.

One thing was suggested to me today.
As my radiator may cause issues getting a drive shaft to the pto mounted at the front. If I mounted it centrally and have the feed out the front, I could also have an option of it feed through a pulley and used from the rear as well.

Just throwing it out there.

[Swamped]

What about hydraulic winches driven off a PTO, can get away without the long shaft out the front??

I've always liked the idea of being able to winch with a stalled engine so I've kept with electrics. Old mans a sparky so when I've had a problem I've had someone to ask if needed. I'll probably never thrash one to see which works best under extreme conditions but that's my reasoning.
PTO's have always worked well when we've needed em to also so it is personal preference.

You could set a poll on the thread and go off that??

[petefj40]

What about hydraulic winches driven off a PTO, can get away without the long shaft out the front??

I've always liked the idea of being able to winch with a stalled engine so I've kept with electrics. Old mans a sparky so when I've had a problem I've had someone to ask if needed. I'll probably never thrash one to see which works best under extreme conditions but that's my reasoning.
PTO's have always worked well when we've needed em to also so it is personal preference.

You could set a poll on the thread and go off that??

Cheers.

Nah.
I'd rather read what people have to say.

I've heard hydraulic winches are the bees knees. But then I hate to bring it up. Cost. Wouldn't they be the most costly to purchase?

[rokhound]

It doesn't matter what brand electric you have (mega bucks or el cheapo) I reckon the are all shit unless you keep them out of the mud and water. The better branded ones may have better water proofing, but I seem to recall DB doing a pull down on 3 different branded units and found that the cheapest was the best designed to cope with water.
That is my experience with them any way, and as the new POS has an electric I guess I shall have to wait and see.

If you don't want to go as mental as I have on mounting, build a removable winch cradle that can be used front, rear or sideways with an Anderson plug.

[mudlva]

well i have had all 3 mentioned above my hydraulic is the only 1 so far to be able to break 1 a new 11mm steel rope and it broke it easy as well (all be it that i was trying to move 3 or 4 cube of solid birt and clay )
anyways it still broke the rope
pto driven winchs are mint apart from they work best with maneuls and that then involve a clutch which dont like mud and crap in them)
if you can find a 60 auto then thats the answer for the clutch issue
leckys are good except that when youve killed the batteries after a few few hard hours winching they will then start giveing up as well ive had a 110amp alternater good flat out and it was still struggling to cope with thomos in the winter a couple of years back

all the above are horses for courses of course
all depends on how far and how hard you want to go and also how fast

the concept that leckys are good as you dont need the motor to run is fine , but only if the truck is on its side and you want to put it back onto its wheels if the motor is dead and you are in a bog there will generally not be enough amps in the batterys to get you out anyway.
so you will then still need the motor to be running this being the case go to a pto system either driving a winch direct or driving a hydralic

there you go my finger is now worn out

[sig]

rule of thumb i go by is elec is for self recovery only ,pto recover you and your mates . elec can use with or without motor running ie dead in a bog .pto needs motor running ie dead in a bog you are f##ked.hope this helps pete

[petefj40]

Cheers sig, mudlva and others. Yep, that helps.
See, I get more out of reading your thoughts than looking at a pole.

[stinky]

The correct answer is what ever your mates have on there truck is good use theirs

[albundy]

Your going down the same road I did last year. I even went as far as buying a PTO unit, but ended up sticking a bigger electric one on. What it came down to was the lack of speed on the PTO, the lack of strength ( always having to double line pull when the 12,000 will single line pull), the breaking and replacing of shear pins, the weight and the bit about shit in the clutch as you need to use the clutch with PTO's. Had shit in clutch before, not good. I still have the PTO, so when the electric shits itself, and it will, I'll convert to hydrualic run of the PTO.
AL

[mudlva]

Your going down the same road I did last year. I even went as far as buying a PTO unit, but ended up sticking a bigger electric one on. What it came down to was the lack of speed on the PTO, the lack of strength ( always having to double line pull when the 12,000 will single line pull), the breaking and replacing of shear pins, the weight and the bit about shit in the clutch as you need to use the clutch with PTO's. Had shit in clutch before, not good. I still have the PTO, so when the electric shits itself, and it will, I'll convert to hydrualic run of the PTO.
AL

are you talking about the nissan ptos as the cruiser pto runs off the rear of the box put it in 5th and you would have to run to keep up with it i do my easy winching in 4th and the harder stuff in 2nd with 10mm rope on i very really have to use a pully block but i have up graded the sheer pins
still have that clutch problem thu

[albundy]

Nissan of course. Saw one in action alot on QB weekend, and it always needed to be double line pulled and slow as.
Al

[mudlva]

yep the problem with ptos that come off final drive i guess

[Shane]

Nissan of course. Saw one in action alot on QB weekend, and it always needed to be double line pulled and slow as.
Al

That surprises me,under any sort of load I find the PTO is normally
faster than most std elect winches.I havent done a double line pull with the PTO yate(I have only used it 10 or so times though)

does he put any revs on?or use the free spool?

Shane

[coxsy]

I doublelined a fair few times now,but then I'm not in a comp just want the share pin to survive the winching.
the new pin has lasted a few good single line winches of late though

[pruggerdore]

Upgrade the share pin. pto dosnt need to be slow. but slow and easy helps not breaking things

[DieselBoy]

Wow, can't believe the replys!!!!!!

Totaly not what I expected

I would go for any mechanical winch over an electric winch any day!!!!!!!

We have the electric on the Weapon that we use for the Winch Challenges, it goes good, but the more load it is under the slower it goes..... Double line pull if its stuck badly on the diffs and at risk of stalling.......

The Safari has a PTO, its bullet proof as a bush truck/club truck winch. As long as there is fuel in the tank, it will winch. 3000rpm and it pulls you along nicely. Double line pull if its stuck badly on the diffs and at risk of popping a pin.

[petefj40]

Wow, can't believe the replys!!!!!!

Totaly not what I expected

For a subject that would have been thrashed out many times before.
I wasn't expecting any responses.
Thanks to all those that have replied.

From what I've read so far. There's pros and cons with both setups.
To me. Having both would be like having the best of both worlds.
So I'm thinking of selling my cheap as electric winch for a superwinch and mid mounting a pto to be used at the front or back.

[mudlva]

mid mount both of them keeps the weight off the front and then you are able to move the batterys to the rear as well taking morw weight off the front and as the bar no longer has a winch on it it now can be made smaller and lighter taking weight off the gross vehicle weight. both winches will stay a lot cleaner on the rear as well

re the batterys have a new battery to starter lead made that is twice the diameter of existing and conect the alternator to that in a sealed box no voltage lost in the alternator

[darinz]

Wow, can't believe the replys!!!!!!

Totaly not what I expected

I would go for any mechanical winch over an electric winch any day!!!!!!!

We have the electric on the Weapon that we use for the Winch Challenges, it goes good, but the more load it is under the slower it goes..... Double line pull if its stuck badly on the diffs and at risk of stalling.......

The Safari has a PTO, its bullet proof as a bush truck/club truck winch. As long as there is fuel in the tank, it will winch. 3000rpm and it pulls you along nicely. Double line pull if its stuck badly on the diffs and at risk of popping a pin.

I'm with DB, pto is cheap and reliable for a club truck. Electric costs a lot more and takes a lot more maitenance to have good reliable performance. BUT electric is simple and easy to fit.
As for electric being faster than pto, on what planet??? I can built you an electric that is as fast as a factory pto but say goodbye to $10k.
If you want to talk competition winches then the whole story changes and that has been talked to death as well. Search on here will reveal a huge amount of discussion.

[petefj40]

Does anyone know what a fair price is for a complete Toyota 70 series pto winch?

I've been quoted $900.

Anyone of you trade me deal hunting fellas come across many, if any?
Apparently, "theres alot selling on trademe at the moment for $800-$1000".

Can anyone help?
Links please.

Cheers.
Pete.

[muddy]

I sold mine for $450. I've seen them go as low as $300 but up to $500 seems a good ball-park. It just depends on how many are for sale at the time and how many people bid on them. If you're not in a hurry, then you can expect to get one at a good price eventually. For $900, I'd expect it to be in mint condition - at $500 you might expect to replace the UJ's, D/S mount bearings and oil seals... Note that you will need to adjust the PTO driveshaft length off a 70 series. Although if you're rear-mounting it, then a 60 series winch may be OK. I think the winch turns the other way, and it has a 2-piece driveshaft which doesn't fit the front-mount.

But in relation to your original question - that gives you a bulletproof and ultra-reliable winch (upgrade the shear pin to a 6mm bolt) for much less than a cheap electric winch!

[petefj40]

Cheers For that muddy.
I thought $900 was a bit steep.
It pisses me off when people get wind you've got a bit of dosh they ask for the highest posible price.
I don't mind waiting for a fair deal.
This person told me there are plenty of them out there.

[Taz]

Isn't the shear pin supposed to be the weak point so it breaks rather than your shaft or internals?

Has anyone who's gone to a bigger pin destroyed something else on their winch, or were the manufacturers just being extra careful putting smaller ones in there from factory?

[wopass]

Has anyone who's gone to a bigger pin destroyed something else ?

yea...winch bars,rope horns,rope...and lots of trees...

ohh and tore the teeth off the bronze drive gear but that was due to 20yr of abuse and lack of lube

[pruggerdore]

$500 would be a fair price but they often go for more. forward and reverse drive units go for lots more on there own as they are hard to find. you upgrade the shear pin but keep it small enough so it is still the weakest link. wat size that is Im not sure. others probably do. when I install mine I will be setting up a couple of different options of pin size and go up in size as they break untill Im happy with the amount of pull Im getting before they break. and then hope they are still the weakest link. I think toyotas rating on the winch itself isnt very high but experience has taught many there capable of much more. for me in a toyota I wouldnt consider anything but a pto winch.simple very reliable and low maintenance.

[pruggerdore]

Are you wanting for an original fj40 gearbox? That requires a different drive unit to the split transfer case on the 60-70 series dosnt it? Im sure it does as I have both here

[petefj40]

Are you wanting for an original fj40 gearbox? That requires a different drive unit to the split transfer case on the 60-70 series dosnt it? Im sure it does as I have both here

If you've read my build thread you'll know I'm running a 70 series 5 speed box in my 40.

I'm putting the truck on the hoist tomorrow just to see if there is enough room to mount one. I have a spare pto to use to do the check with.