Sorted; Not ECU for KZJ-7x Prado - was spill valve

[IcedJohnno]

I am looking to borrow someone's manual Prado ECU near Chch for this Monday, so that the Autosparky can do a comparison check. He is able to provide a loan vehicle so that you are not stuck, if required.

The ECU needs to be from a Manual KZJ-71 or 78 Landcruiser Prado, 1990 to early 96. These have the 1KZ-TE motor. The Surf or Hiace ones are not the same and don't fit the loom plugs. Neither do the Auto ones.

I have got engine starting and sometimes no throttle response issues with my Prado.
I think it is the ECU, however before it goes back to the firm which re-built it, they want to see the issue diagnosed. Their testbeds are the vehicles the ECU's come out of.

I have had my truck in at Vantage Automotive for a couple of days now and they have checked out all the usual stuff.

Jamie's next thing to try is swapping out the ECU for a known good one and then re-checking feed voltages etc.

I would very much appreciate some help with this. The only manual Prado that I know of around here is where it lives but the owner is away in that other island...
I am assured by the sparky that the loaner ECU will not be damaged when installed in my truck.

Cheers John
0273 400 100



P.S. for those that don't know there are several earth cables that bolt to the back of the head (hard to see) that fail with vibration over time. These can lead to voltage spikes or low volts on control circuits. This was not the issue on my vehicle this time though.

[kbushnz]

Have you checked the TPS sensor.....
It tells the ECU what the throttle is doing...
If its playing up you will get issues...

[tallsam66]

Sounds very similar to the problem im having again....hard to start sometimes & when it does wont rev ....seems intermitant .....drove 1000kms over holidays with no problems at all ....now its back.
Im getting error code 24 which points to Air Intake temperature Sensor.
Ive metered the sensor ...all ok....im sure cabling is ok as if you disconnect it the code comes back...have also swapped out ECU.

[tallsam66]

Have you checked the TPS sensor.....
It tells the ECU what the throttle is doing...
If its playing up you will get issues...

Would you not get error code 41 is this was an issue ???

[kbushnz]

To be honest I don't hold much faith in error codes....
If it was me I would do all the sensor checks in the manual.
TPS
Speed (pump)
Crank angle
Air Temp
MAP
Then resistance test of pump...
Then if all good start checking if the ECU is getting the correct volts / signals / ohms etc etc.
The Engine manual has a good chart stating what you should get when it gets probed....
Oh and check all wiring/ earths and plug connections first for security or damage.
This is partly why I have jumped to a manual pump....
Get away from all those electrons before they leak out.
Manual pump in a manual trans would be a good fix...
Only keep the ecu connected for glow plug control and even then you can ditch it and go for a push switch to activate the glow relay....

Keep us posted on what you find...

[sig]

i might have one that could be surplus to requirements in the not to distant future if you can wait a bit.My prado that i'm putting the ls1 into was a kzj70 manual.Where is the comp located .I need to check if i need it cheers sig

[kbushnz]

Computer is located inside the glove box.
Remove inner liner and look up...

[tallsam66]

You had any luck john ...i have all but bad so far lol
Tried another ECU
Checked as many earths as i can find including the one at end of head against firewall.
Metered air intake sensor

next move it to remove throttle body & meter that

[IcedJohnno]

Hi all
No luck so far in locating an ECU.

I have enough issues with electrons escaping my head, let alone something made of steel & plastic, so have not personally done many checks.
My sparky motto is "where there's smoke, there's wires"!
I did check voltage to glowplugs, but not amps. Am since told, in total these should be 50A.

Jamie from Vantage Auto has checked all sensors. All showing correct readings

Before that I had seen via another A-sparky that there were no fault codes coming up. At that point he gave up! Grrr, have used this company for years, like 30 yrs. Am not likely to go back now...

Where would I find the engine manual on-line? Have seen the parts info you sent me Calvin on toyodiy, but did not see an actual manual.
This may be useful for the Sparky, if he does not have it...

Have been told about loom vibration causing wire failures. Hmmmmm.

Thanks Sig. At this stage am really just wanting to fault diagnose and then send my ECU back up to Anything Electronic to get them to fix it again. May be keen later though. KZJ-70 Which version is this? Thought they only made -71 & -78 in the Prados.

So still after an ECU to check ASAP. Tis my only vehicle that's road worthy at the mo and I am wanting to go on holiday with my sisters family in the back woods this week! The one chance for a cheap holiday and some 4wheeling in like a year and this happens!

[tallsam66]

Here is 1KZ-TE manual ..its 14Mb
http://www.wanderlustonline.com/1kz-te.pdf

I could get ya an Auto ECU most likely but not manual ..manual are super rear now

[kbushnz]

There is a theme developing on the forum....Lots of KZJ78's with loose electrons....

[tallsam66]

There is a theme developing on the forum....Lots of KZJ78's with loose electrons....

Mines a KZN130W ...surf ..but shares same engine 1KZ-TE

[IcedJohnno]

Thanks to DDAN - awesome bloke cheers, I got to try another ECU. I can only assume all is OK with that one as his truck has been manual pumped.

Still had exactly the same issue!!! #$%^&*(#$%^&*)!

Hmm.... an old dyno tuner from way back when an oscilloscope cost 3 times his house, reckons I may have loom issues. I.E. wires almost broken through. Enough strands to fire up circuits when at low current but not under load...

Truck now really starting to struggle to start, like 5 mins of very fast cranking. (Jamie at Advantage auto says the spill valve always lets some fuel in and this is it firing but not enough to keep the motor running under its own steam.) After about 5 mins it will hold its own and keep running. no throttle control just idle. Several minutes later throttle response comes back usually by turning key off one notch and then back on. Usually every time the motor comes back to a proper idle like at the lights, the response from the accelerator pedal has gone again.

truck has lower than normal torque at 900 to 1200 rpm so will stall when you take off from lights unless you have a little throttle on.

Thoughts on where to look anyone?

[kbushnz]

Got me stumped.....Fuel restriction somewhere...Air in fuel.
Dud injector pump.?
I have spare pump now....which will be put up for sale some time soon....
You can have first choice...

[tallsam66]

Sounds exactly same as the problem im having ...tomorrow imgoing to meter the Throttle Position Sensor then check the Spill Valve Relay....apparently this relay can sometimes cause strange problems & also no error code comes up when it goes bung.

I assume your not getting any error codes coming up Johno ???

[IcedJohnno]

As far as I know there are no error codes coming up.
As said earlier, if it's mechanical I am all over it, but electrons..... they are weird, they bite and you cant see them except for that smoke stuff....
I did buy myself a nice Digital electronic multimeter yesterday. Maybe I need to start using it!
Actually truck will be back at Vantage Auto 1st thing tomo. They have way more skill & experience than I will ever get with those lecky things.

I am wondering about the spill valve, & I do have a spare one on my spare pump, sorry Calvin! Maybe I will swap that out.

Thinking also that it has to be something to do with the start/run circuits from the ignition switch, cos that effects things when you turn the key off that one click and then back on.

??

Tony from Wellington is wondering if I have a blocked fuel filter. Likely not, as it was changed before Christmas when the other fuelling issue started (Faulty ECU that time).
I will look to see if the manual fuel pump is being sucked down. He has seen that before on a Bighorn and I will check to see if there is another filter (fine gauze) at the pump like Saffis have.

Keep 'im coming guys!

Cheers
John

[kbushnz]

I will check to see if there is another filter (fine gauze) at the pump like Saffis have.

There is supposed to be a filter inside this fitting / sensor.

Not sure if there are any others.

[IcedJohnno]

Thanks Calvin.
How is your truck going now?
I went for a ride in DDan's today. Very impressive! I LIKE!!

[tallsam66]

I will check to see if there is another filter (fine gauze) at the pump like Saffis have.

There is supposed to be a filter inside this fitting / sensor.

pump.JPG

Not sure if there are any others.

Thats the Fuel Temperature Sensor there is a Strainer behind it & its the only one in the pump.

[kbushnz]

Thanks Calvin.
How is your truck going now?
I went for a ride in DDan's today. Very impressive! I LIKE!!

I goes great engine wise.....pulls real hard..
Just the auto to sort out. Gear changes in the wrong rev range. (too high)
But that's what I expected...Still to simplify throttle linkages. Have a cunning plan to use a mitsi TPS and then I can remove one feedback cable have everything almost factory like.. but need to get back to work and have some bits machined up...Still on my holidays ! And if I still cant get it to go right a Suprastick will be put on the plastic.....And I want it done by Easter for the Woodhill endurance event....

[IcedJohnno]

I believe I have sorted it!
Starts OK
No loss of throttle control
Making useful torque again!
YAY!!
Touches wood ))

Decided to swap out my spill valve.
Pulled spare off with spare pump in vice. Took a reasonable amount of force using correct C spanner adapter & 400mm powerbar.
Disconnected electrical connector and then undid spill valve on engine and noticed there was no undo pressure required!

Looked again and saw that the position of the C spanner adaptor was such, that the person who tightened up the valve last had got the tip of the C against the body of the pump. Through careful jiggery pokery, I managed to get another 1/12 of a turn out of my original Spill Valve.

Reconnected wiring and Hey Presto;
Truck starts 1st time.
Good throttle response.
No low down torque loss.
Now making proper torque throughout range. Had not really realised that this was down in other regions as well.

So not sure whether that 1/12 of a turn on an approx 0.5mm pitch thread (from memory) = 0.04mm vertical, would make any difference to parts below the valve itself; filter etc
or
did disconnecting and re-connecting the wiring make the difference?

Hopefully all will be well with truck starting from dead cold.
Will see tomo morn.

Thanks for all the help

As usual I have learnt more about my truck/engine
Cheers John

[kbushnz]

That's great news.. Possibly sucking in air....

[tallsam66]

I too have fixed mine for now ...turned out to be water in the diesel ...i checked diesel filter ...heaps of water came out , so replaced filter then it was away ....little puzzled why the water sensor didnt put up an error code to tell me but perhaps its faulty ....ill get another sensor & throw it in sometime. (Filter had done 5000 km & was installed in June 2010 )
Hope it stays fixed ...time will tell.

[IcedJohnno]

That's great news.. Possibly sucking in air....

Sucking in air?
I doubt it. If it could suck in air then very likely it would blow out high pressure diesel.
There is an o-ring installed in the housing below where the threads are.

Started after 4 hrs from near cold. Was just standing outside truck. 3rd crank and away I am VERY HAPPY!

Great to hear from you Trevor. Pleased that you have solved your issues too.
I have had water in the fuel before, as the nozzle of my Spill Valve showed small signs of water corrosion. We changed the filter the week proir to Chrissy.