Battery upgrade for winch

[Smurf]

I'm looking at upgrading the battery in my Prado, It currently has a 650CCa Calcium battery in it but it doesn't like to recharge when it gets flattened by winching or whatever. Battery isn't very old.
Over Easter two easy 5m winches pulling a Safari out of a bog was enough to drain it to a point were it wouldn't wind the cable in at the end of the day when I went to respool it, also the engine wouldn't start the next morning. And its a **tch to jump start too.
I've spent the past hour or so searching the site and the web for info but thought I'd ask for more clarification.
More CCAs?
Twin batteries?
Different type of battery? AGM or wet?
I can't afford the likes of an optima but I am prepared to spend a reasonable amount on the right battery/setup.
I'm pretty sure my alternator is doing the right thing but I am taking the Prado into an auto electrician tomorrow to have it checked, just to be sure.
Any info would be much appreciated.

[niblik]

do you have any gauge monitoring the battery or the alt?

1 battery will do ok with occasional winchin if ya monitor its voltage but go more cca's with dual batteries dude.. chuck a gauge on to monitor the battery volts as opposed to what the alt is doin and you'll never look back dude.

p.s... to get a nissan pulled from bog is never 'easy'...

[skid]

unfortunately the modern calcium batteries aren't being fully charged by older alternators

you need to invest in a decent calcium charger and chuck it on every so often to replenish it properly

if its really flat the calcium charger wont charge it so you need to put the old skool charger on for a bit to get some life into it

sounds weird and it is, but this is how it is with calcium batteries

[Smurf]

unfortunately the modern calcium batteries aren't being fully charged by older alternators

you need to invest in a decent calcium charger and chuck it on every so often to replenish it properly

if its really flat the calcium charger wont charge it so you need to put the old skool charger on for a bit to get some life into it

sounds weird and it is, but this is how it is with calcium batteries

Skid, I had read an earlier post of yours regarding this and I have put the battery onto my old trickle charger to see what happens. I have a good calcium charger too.
Nibs, I think I agree, talking to Flag over easter, he has 1800CCA with two batteries and reckons he has never had a problem.
Sounds like I should be trying to get away from a clacium battery then?

[niblik]

Sounds like I should be trying to get away from a clacium battery then?

yeah dude.. for sure..

what sized power cable ya got feeding the winch? that can help too...

[Smurf]

Sounds like I should be trying to get away from a clacium battery then?

yeah dude.. for sure..

what sized power cable ya got feeding the winch? that can help too...

Just the factory cables on the winch at present, pricing up heavier power cables tomorrow at auto electrician

[Smurf]

Got offered a good price on Exide Orbital (750CCA) and a Exide 31-950 (950CCA)
Both are AGM style batteries suited to winching applications, the 31-950 is a long sucker though, 330mm which might not quite squeeze into the hole in the Prado.
Any thoughts on either, the rep reckoned the orbital is the way to go.
I can get 70mm2 cable at $28/metre, is that a reasonable price?

[mercutio]

i have been thinking how difficult would it be to set up some lithium ion cells as power supply for an electric winch would not be cheap i know but alot more power than lead acid batteries

[niblik]

dunno abut the price sorry smurf.. although a 950cca would be gooderest, size might be an issue as ya said, so if the 750cca fits, go that way.... just whatever ya do, make sure theyre both the same specs etc..

as for the lithium ions mercutio, they'd sure give you some grunt, but i'd be wondering on the recharge rate/time?

[mercutio]

as for the lithium ions mercutio, they'd sure give you some grunt, but i'd be wondering on the recharge rate/time?

you would have to do some serious winching to flatten them so much that you needed to worry about recharging them and lithium ion can handle the occasional fast charge without adversely affecting battery life to be honest the battery life on lithium ion would be longer than the life of the vehicle

you would burn the motor out before you ran the batteries out lol

it is something to think about anyway just one of those mad ideas i have sometimes

[meatc]

My W/C truck runs twin NS70 size 750cca batts with a 80amp alt. This set up is enough to feed a twin motored 8274 that is about to be running 16hp. It is feed by big fat 90mm2 cable. It will happily do a 30m plus winch and then come back for more. Once event the engine died as I winched out of a creek, did the hardest part of the winch, spent about 30secs on the starter, then dead winched 25m odd into the finish box. Then when we found the wet plug it started the motor

Guess what I am trying get at is yeap you need good batts but you dont need to go crazy. For most stuff a good 750cca with good alt and even better power feed wiring should be fine.

[ladeda]

Sounds like I should be trying to get away from a clacium battery then?

yeah dude.. for sure..

what sized power cable ya got feeding the winch? that can help too...

its getting pritty hard to get away from calcium / calcium bats now day as prity much most manufactures are going this way and hardly any bats will say on the bat itself if its calcium / calcium.

A few still do. I believe Exide do make a matrix batery. that is calcium / antimoni, antimony positive plate, calcium neg plate. they did this for 1 problem in paticular the calcim bats have, which is the high level of resistance that accurs when they get heavily discharged. this resistance is almost impossible to overcome with any conventional charger.

One good tip to make your calcium bats last a shed load longer is once they have been fully charged you can put your trickle charger or maintence charger on and leave it on all the time untill your next drive.
keeping the bat fully charged when not in use will extend its life alot.

hope this helps

[Smurf]

its getting pritty hard to get away from calcium / calcium bats now day as prity much most manufactures are going this way and hardly any bats will say on the bat itself if its calcium / calcium.

A few still do. I believe Exide do make a matrix batery. that is calcium / antimoni, antimony positive plate, calcium neg plate. they did this for 1 problem in paticular the calcim bats have, which is the high level of resistance that accurs when they get heavily discharged. this resistance is almost impossible to overcome with any conventional charger.

One good tip to make your calcium bats last a shed load longer is once they have been fully charged you can put your trickle charger or maintence charger on and leave it on all the time untill your next drive.
keeping the bat fully charged when not in use will extend its life alot.

hope this helps

Good info.
Only thing is this is my daily driver so no chance of plugging it in til the next drive.
The two batteries I am looking at, that I mentioned in my previous post are not calcium batteries, one is an AGM battery, the other a hybrid (maybe a calcium after all?), which are meant to have a better duty cycle and be easier to recharge in the vehicle.

[niblik]

you would have to do some serious winching to flatten them so much that you needed to worry about recharging them and lithium ion can handle the occasional fast charge without adversely affecting battery life to be honest the battery life on lithium ion would be longer than the life of the vehicle

interesting... sweet dude.. no harm in my askin.. whats the weight like in a decent sized set up ya think?

sorry for threadjack smurf... as ya were..

[Smurf]

you would have to do some serious winching to flatten them so much that you needed to worry about recharging them and lithium ion can handle the occasional fast charge without adversely affecting battery life to be honest the battery life on lithium ion would be longer than the life of the vehicle

interesting... sweet dude.. no harm in my askin.. whats the weight like in a decent sized set up ya think?

sorry for threadjack smurf... as ya were..

Interesting thought, carry on

[ladeda]

[quote="ladeda]
its getting pritty hard to get away from calcium / calcium bats now day as prity much most manufactures are going this way and hardly any bats will say on the bat itself if its calcium / calcium.

A few still do. I believe Exide do make a matrix batery. that is calcium / antimoni, antimony positive plate, calcium neg plate. they did this for 1 problem in paticular the calcim bats have, which is the high level of resistance that accurs when they get heavily discharged. this resistance is almost impossible to overcome with any conventional charger.

One good tip to make your calcium bats last a shed load longer is once they have been fully charged you can put your trickle charger or maintence charger on and leave it on all the time untill your next drive.
keeping the bat fully charged when not in use will extend its life alot.

hope this helps[/quote]

Good info.
Only thing is this is my daily driver so no chance of plugging it in til the next drive.
The two batteries I am looking at, that I mentioned in my previous post are not calcium batteries, they are AGM batteries, which are meant to have a better duty cycle and be easier to recharge in the vehicle.[/quote][/quote]

yep that would be the way to go for what you want.

the main reasons why there all going calcium bats now is they can produce more power for the size of the bat.
they last alot longer due to calcium being stronger than antimony i.e. more resistant to a rough ride.
they are maintance free due to ther being 80% less off gassing so no need to top up liquid
so for normal applications the calcium bats do perform better,
but for what we get up..... to not so much
I agree with the others in saying that a 750 cca sould be enough aslong as the alt and cables are up to scratch.
keep in mind if ya gona go to the effort of up grading the wire from alt complete the circuit by up grading your eaths at the same time.
sounds like youve got is sused now.
bee good to here the outcome once youve tested it out.