or what size or make would you suggest (single phase) just for work on the Cruiser and light farm work
Mig Welder options
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Armourguard
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 143
- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: Wellsford/Warkworth/SH16, Auckland
Mig Welder options
What Mig Welder do you guys use
or what size or make would you suggest (single phase) just for work on the Cruiser and light farm work
or what size or make would you suggest (single phase) just for work on the Cruiser and light farm work
"Owning a 40 is almost like having an ugly child, with a really good personality."
I use a Cebora Stag - cost around $1400 when I bought it I think... done everything I have asked of it and even done the odd thing I hadn't asked for (like melting small holes in my flesh 
)
I'd recommend it although I know some people don't like them... another good bet would be the UniMig workshop series...
Steve
)
I'd recommend it although I know some people don't like them... another good bet would be the UniMig workshop series...
Steve
kiwipete wrote:Are you guys welding with or without gas?
What are they like to use without gas and using the flux wire?
Considering updating my severly out of date arc welder when the shed is built.
I used to use gasless wire, but when I got the new Cebora I went to a gas bottle (about $12/month rental and the bottle is around $25 to fill - lasts ages). Once I got the settings right with gasless it actually welded quite nicely but nowhere near as nice as CO2 gas... and I did run one bottle of Argoshield (about twice the price - amazing finish on the weld, but not quite the same penetration).
Also with gasless the weld is quite 'dirty' and if you try to weld over it with gas-mig later it pops and farts and makes a mess...
Steve
ALOT OF IT WITH A MIG IS THE SETTINGS . I USE BOTH A ELECTRA BECKAM $2500 AND A TELWIN $1600 AT MY BUISNESS AND BOTH ARE GOOD, I ONLY USE MS2 ARGO SHEILD GAS .IF YOUR PENERTRATION IS NO GOOD BUMP UP THE POWER OR SLOW YOUR SPEED DOWN , I WELD STEEL FROM 0.8 TO 8MM GOOD AS GOLD WITH 180 AMP WELDER. CHEERS VAUGHAN
spanky wrote:ALOT OF IT WITH A MIG IS THE SETTINGS . I USE BOTH A ELECTRA BECKAM $2500 AND A TELWIN $1600 AT MY BUISNESS AND BOTH ARE GOOD, I ONLY USE MS2 ARGO SHEILD GAS .IF YOUR PENERTRATION IS NO GOOD BUMP UP THE POWER OR SLOW YOUR SPEED DOWN , I WELD STEEL FROM 0.8 TO 8MM GOOD AS GOLD WITH 180 AMP WELDER. CHEERS VAUGHAN
Slowing down with MIG can actually reduce your penetration... you need to keep the wire ahead of the weld-pool... squirting wire into the pool causes it to melt before it penetrates.
And bumping up the power is a bit vague... volts or amps? And you also need to be careful when doing that because the current can cause the wire to start melting before it gets to the weld itself... which also reduces penetration.
You are right with one thing tho, it IS all about the settings... welding is an art and a science.
Steve
Re: welder
coxsy wrote:my mig at work 400 amps, stainless, ali, and if something piss me off bump it up to spray arc,
I dream of 400A sigh
Still my 170-ish amps glued the MU together... and it never fell apart
...it also glued Riks truck, Conans truck and quite a few other trucks together... and to the best of my knowledge none of them has fallen apart either...
...but still... 400A sigh... it would be nice to blow holes in thick plate steel with my welder - just because I can
What sort of work are you doing with yours Coxsy?
Steve
Got a 120a MigStar. Cheap and nasty, but does the job, usually under $1000 retail from Repco, (paid $500 staff price). Its gass capable, and am in the process of sourcing a regulator to set it up for using gas. Have always used flux cored wire, it works, but is not pretty or very user friendly and bloody expensive ($25 per .4kg role).
Regulator and argo sheild bottle to set up for gas $48
Regulator and argo sheild bottle to set up for gas $48
lax2wlg wrote:Is that like saying 'she's hot, for a crackwhore??
i just use an arc welder to tack things together, then get someone i know to weld things up, i do this for 2 main reasons,1 it has taken me years to get a half decent weld, but not one that i could trust my life in, and 2 there is heaps of guys in the same sport that can weld and if i multiply the cost of beer as compared to buying a mig welder, beer wins
ruf_zuki wrote:Also with gasless the weld is quite 'dirty' and if you try to weld over it with gas-mig later it pops and farts and makes a mess...
Steve
you sure your chipping the slag off before welding over top? just like you do with a stick welder
Yep, I even found grinding the weld out didn't help much... and it was even worse to arc over... I just avoid gasless now...
btw, hows your truck going? long time no see...
Steve
welding
welding is my job a little list for begineer welders
buy a good helmet to go with the mig toss the hand held if you can get a auto darking one cuts the flash plus you can hold the job and then tack it without burning fingers or eyes
wear old clothes, overalls even better
leather shoes or boots
long welding gloves a yellow hot spatter in there is not fun
steel melts at 1600 c does not like that heat, those spatters are nasty in your hair, ears, between fingers, toes, had one burn throught the overalls jeans in to the jocks your never fast enough ,
fumes really bad for you life , have venterlation
fire ext, on hand spatter can travell far ,
keep kids, animals clear
no bare skin the uv is high off the arc stronger than the summer sun
get anti spatter or mig dip spray or coat the nossle helps keep the nossle cool and it will weld better too
a good run sissles like a steak with no put puts in it
keep the wire short when welding move quickly
if thin steel you can weld with short bursts or pull the nossle back run a long section of wire it still welds at a slower rate and lower power put you can weld were the nossle will not reach
may post more when i think of it
buy a good helmet to go with the mig toss the hand held if you can get a auto darking one cuts the flash plus you can hold the job and then tack it without burning fingers or eyes
wear old clothes, overalls even better
leather shoes or boots
long welding gloves a yellow hot spatter in there is not fun
steel melts at 1600 c does not like that heat, those spatters are nasty in your hair, ears, between fingers, toes, had one burn throught the overalls jeans in to the jocks your never fast enough ,
fumes really bad for you life , have venterlation
fire ext, on hand spatter can travell far ,
keep kids, animals clear
no bare skin the uv is high off the arc stronger than the summer sun
get anti spatter or mig dip spray or coat the nossle helps keep the nossle cool and it will weld better too
a good run sissles like a steak with no put puts in it
keep the wire short when welding move quickly
if thin steel you can weld with short bursts or pull the nossle back run a long section of wire it still welds at a slower rate and lower power put you can weld were the nossle will not reach
may post more when i think of it
I run a 210 liquid arc, maxmig... and to be frank I wouldn't buy another my old maximig 160 (dad has it now) could do almost everything this one can and is more adjustable
Overall the 210 is a solid welder hell I've abused the crab out of it, pushed its duty cycle beyound what its sposed to run at, and I've welded some very serious stuff, nastyest was layered welds on a 50mm section and due to short time line I ran at full snot at twice the rated duty cycle
(only stopping to flick the fuse jumper back on in the sheds meter box 
)
For those that don't know what I'm talking about, any decent welder should come with a chart telling you how long you can run the machine at the set amperage (that way you don't cook anything in the welder ) a good welder will be looking at around 60 to 80% at full amp rating, this means for every ten minutes you can use it for only 6 to 8 min's, crap welders I've seen figures as low as 24% thats only 2 and a half min's of use every 10 
My beef's with this welder is its lack of adjustability adjusting the amperage and wire feeds hell even changing wire size dosn't have that much effect, I have to use the techneque coxy's talking about, pulling the handpiece back from the work and stop starting to control heat, the other thing that annoys me is the single wheel drive, my next one is definitly going to be 2 wheel drive!!
My suggestion find some options that are in your price range and then ask here to see what people think and just becouse its cheap dosn't mean its crap "trade tools" sell chinese welders that have alot of top features, warrenties and good price
My opion for what its worth go as big as you can aford, power is one of those things, if you don't have it you'll wish you did
don't worry about infinite adustability you can compensate for this with techneque, don't worry about fancy features like alloy welding (untill you know what your doing its way cheaper getting it done 
) and don't buy a gassless only welder, once you weld with gas you'll not bother with splatter wire unless you need to weld in wind
Cheers Reece
Overall the 210 is a solid welder hell I've abused the crab out of it, pushed its duty cycle beyound what its sposed to run at, and I've welded some very serious stuff, nastyest was layered welds on a 50mm section and due to short time line I ran at full snot at twice the rated duty cycle
(only stopping to flick the fuse jumper back on in the sheds meter box )
For those that don't know what I'm talking about, any decent welder should come with a chart telling you how long you can run the machine at the set amperage (that way you don't cook anything in the welder
) a good welder will be looking at around 60 to 80% at full amp rating, this means for every ten minutes you can use it for only 6 to 8 min's, crap welders I've seen figures as low as 24% thats only 2 and a half min's of use every 10
My beef's with this welder is its lack of adjustability adjusting the amperage and wire feeds hell even changing wire size dosn't have that much effect, I have to use the techneque coxy's talking about, pulling the handpiece back from the work and stop starting to control heat, the other thing that annoys me is the single wheel drive, my next one is definitly going to be 2 wheel drive!!
My suggestion find some options that are in your price range and then ask here to see what people think and just becouse its cheap dosn't mean its crap "trade tools" sell chinese welders that have alot of top features, warrenties and good price
My opion for what its worth go as big as you can aford, power is one of those things, if you don't have it you'll wish you did
don't worry about infinite adustability you can compensate for this with techneque, don't worry about fancy features like alloy welding (untill you know what your doing its way cheaper getting it done ) and don't buy a gassless only welder, once you weld with gas you'll not bother with splatter wire unless you need to weld in wind
Cheers Reece
Great thread - nice to hear from others how things are done, especially those that weld a lot.
I have two cheap welders, one $300 or so gasless mig from Repco (100A I think) - bought for body work...took a while and a lot of stop/start and very low duty (about 20%). Had to replace the wire feed sheath with nylon air tube, and the feed still stalls if gun lead bent too far. Oh and wire tip is constantly live - can surprise you and cause the odd wee fire if you put gun down in the wrong place. But only $300.
It is good for what I need it for. Got wire from Independent Welding Supplies, 1kg spool for about $30, so not as expensive as has been mentioned here. That seemed to weld better than the spool that originally came with the welder. Gasless does spatter to hell. I only buy consumables from welding places. Not sure if quality differs, but they deal in it day in day out.
Other welder is an Arc for thicker stuff, $400 odd (160A), basically for thicker stuff, but not too thick. Ratings says it can use 3.2mm rods, but I wouldn't push it that far.
Now I am not a very good welder, but have accidentally laid the occassional nice weld...just don't do it enough. A great deal depends on what you need it for. For real heavy welding or structural stuff, I'd definitely outsource.
My 10c worth...
R
I have two cheap welders, one $300 or so gasless mig from Repco (100A I think) - bought for body work...took a while and a lot of stop/start and very low duty (about 20%). Had to replace the wire feed sheath with nylon air tube, and the feed still stalls if gun lead bent too far. Oh and wire tip is constantly live - can surprise you and cause the odd wee fire if you put gun down in the wrong place. But only $300.
It is good for what I need it for. Got wire from Independent Welding Supplies, 1kg spool for about $30, so not as expensive as has been mentioned here. That seemed to weld better than the spool that originally came with the welder. Gasless does spatter to hell. I only buy consumables from welding places. Not sure if quality differs, but they deal in it day in day out.
Other welder is an Arc for thicker stuff, $400 odd (160A), basically for thicker stuff, but not too thick. Ratings says it can use 3.2mm rods, but I wouldn't push it that far.
Now I am not a very good welder, but have accidentally laid the occassional nice weld...just don't do it enough. A great deal depends on what you need it for. For real heavy welding or structural stuff, I'd definitely outsource.
My 10c worth...
R
Rowan
KZJ78 LWB Prado
KZJ78 LWB Prado
Re: welding
coxsy wrote:long welding gloves a yellow hot spatter in there is not fun
steel melts at 1600 c does not like that heat, those spatters are nasty in your hair, ears, between fingers, toes, had one burn throught the overalls jeans in to the jocks your never fast enough
Hehehe... yep, I've had weld splatter give me a bad burn between two of my fingers before... one of the most painful and 'orrible burns I've ever had... right on the web. Every time I spread my hand out it would open the wound again so took ages to heal...
Good list there Coxsy... mostly things you learn the hard way by experience... although its better to have them listed out for you before you start...
one other thing.... NEVER NEVER NEVER weld in your wifes good polarfleece jacket
Don't ask me how I know
Steve
To use gasless with a Cebora I think you will find you get a very good weld (same as if using gas) if you change the terminals around, on the welder put the pos onto the neg and neg onto pos, change it back when using gas. Check with the agent first as I'm not claiming to be a smart fella and will not be responsible for one idiot following another and stuffing his welder.
I purchased my stag for $750 and love it.
I purchased my stag for $750 and love it.
SupraLux wrote:I sooo want to build myself a fabrication table like that... I dream of a 1/2 sheet of 50mm plate on a huge-ass frame with big old castors under it for moving it around...
Thats a nice workspace... well lit, unlike so many engineering workshops...
Steve
Our Fab shophas afew benches in it but my main i use is 50mm plate and its very big. fit atleast two an half surfs on it lol, we tried to move it the other day and our 4ton forklift didnt even look like moving it, had to get the big 12t out
shop
its well lit now, when i first arrived a dark place, new skylights ,16 ovr head lights , new sheeting in the wall tops , we own the shop not leased , its a little small with 10 guys in there but we get by
Oh, another tip for MIG... a gap between the two bits of metal can help the penetration... gives the wire somewhere to go and fill rather than just melting into the surface...
A welding FAQ for MIG Arc and TIG might be a good thing for the forum... help getting guys up to speed for glueing stuff together on their trucks... Maybe they can be compiled from threads like this and vetted by the engineers amongst us? With the appropriate disclaimers of course
Steve
A welding FAQ for MIG Arc and TIG might be a good thing for the forum... help getting guys up to speed for glueing stuff together on their trucks... Maybe they can be compiled from threads like this and vetted by the engineers amongst us? With the appropriate disclaimers of course
Steve