Cannot work out how I never knew this forum existed.
Anyway my Surf has taken to being a bit vague in the steering lately. I have had Toyota's free steering thing done plus they replaced a couple of other components in the steering. They did a wheel alignment and I have had another one since (by a different company). It was wandering before that though.
The symptoms are that at 100km there appears to be a marked tendency to wander over the road. I have to be much more careful when driving at speed than I used to. After the two wheel alignments it went from favouring one side to favouring the other. Both alignment shops reported the suspension as being okay. Nothing rattles or feels loose. The shocks seem okay (but I suppose that has to be considered). I thought it might be the tyres but I have two sets of wheels and they both do it.
There does appear to be about 75mm movement either side of 12 o'clock on the steering wheel before I feel much response on the road.
I am wondering if there is something adjustable in the steering box which will adjust this out ? Or is it more serious ?
Problem with wandering steering on a 1990 Surf
Normally wandering steers are solved by a good electric fence, but that might not solve your problem.
Steering boxes do have an adjustment (not 100% on surfs) I had a simular problem in a car (slack in steering wheel - you could drive like a little kid without affecting the car on the road), tightened up the adjustment and it made a world of a difference. but like I say, I'm no expert on surf steering, mine is fine.
Steering boxes do have an adjustment (not 100% on surfs) I had a simular problem in a car (slack in steering wheel - you could drive like a little kid without affecting the car on the road), tightened up the adjustment and it made a world of a difference. but like I say, I'm no expert on surf steering, mine is fine.
on the top of the steering box there is and adjuster, loosen the outer nut and wind the inner screw in (with the front end off the ground) untill you take out the slack,being carefull not ot tighten too far as this will make it not self centre and be a little unervy when driving as you have to physically turn the wheel back to centre. normally about half a turn is about right to take out the slack.
have a look and get back to us.
have a look and get back to us.
If you already know everything, DON'T ask bloody questions!!
The steering damper is probably due for replacement anyway so sometime soon.
I will keep an eye out on Trademe for a cheap electric fence since that might help also.
And I did note from my manual that there is some adjustment on the steering box but past experience has shown me that it is never as simple as the obvious thing. I will have a look at that this weekend (I have another vehicle and believe me it is never the obvious). In Ellery it is on page 354 and called Adjust Steering Wheel Free Play.
Probably a combination of damper and steering box.
If anything works I'll post back.
I will keep an eye out on Trademe for a cheap electric fence since that might help also.
And I did note from my manual that there is some adjustment on the steering box but past experience has shown me that it is never as simple as the obvious thing. I will have a look at that this weekend (I have another vehicle and believe me it is never the obvious). In Ellery it is on page 354 and called Adjust Steering Wheel Free Play.
Probably a combination of damper and steering box.
If anything works I'll post back.
Well things are never simple. My steering box is an auto with power steering and the adjustment for taking out the steering slack doesn't exist. The box does have an adjustment on the top but it is to do with an internal adjustment of some sort and does not take out steering wheel slack so back to the drawing board. Unless anybody has any further ideas I am starting to think the problem might require a rebuild of the power steering box.
Since others have this problem it would appear that this is a developing problem with older vehicles. I do have to replace the steering damper but doubt that this will solve the slack steering problem.
Incidentally my vehicle has done 160k.
Since others have this problem it would appear that this is a developing problem with older vehicles. I do have to replace the steering damper but doubt that this will solve the slack steering problem.
Incidentally my vehicle has done 160k.
Bloody manuals. I have just realised that what I thought was either a manfs name or style (Manuak) is a typo and should be Manual. This error has been repeated several times in this section. And explains why I don't have one that looks like that.
Moving on - I did have a fiddle with the Power Steering Gear Housing one as well and at the moment the screw has been done up about 1.5 turns clockwise. It made no difference on the road so maybe I have to go more.
To access it you have to remove the washer bottle and with a very long extension it is possible to loosen the locknut. There is no way to get any spanners in. It is not obvious how you would hold the screw steady while doing up the locknut. The manual indicates that the adjustment is done as part of the assembly while out of the car.
Can somebody confirm that the second paragraph is correct.
Another turn of the adjusting screw will see it move inside the lock nut.
Moving on - I did have a fiddle with the Power Steering Gear Housing one as well and at the moment the screw has been done up about 1.5 turns clockwise. It made no difference on the road so maybe I have to go more.
To access it you have to remove the washer bottle and with a very long extension it is possible to loosen the locknut. There is no way to get any spanners in. It is not obvious how you would hold the screw steady while doing up the locknut. The manual indicates that the adjustment is done as part of the assembly while out of the car.
Can somebody confirm that the second paragraph is correct.
Another turn of the adjusting screw will see it move inside the lock nut.
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warlord225
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: Wellington
The settings are as follows after a couple of comments -
I had two alignments done. The second was almost the same as the first with very minor differences (I can't find that one at the moment). Note that after either of them there was no change to the wandering on the road but there was a minor change to the position of the steering wheel at straight ahead. 1st time it was distinctly to the left and after the 2nd one it was to the right by about the same. This was only a few degrees but I get fussy about where the wheel sits. In fact it was to fix the wheel position that I had the 2nd one done.
The 1st alignment was done after steering parts were changed as part of Toyotas recall. They also replaced the Pitman arm and a couple of other things.
However before, during and after parts were replaced and the alignments the wandering remained about the same. I was optimistic that somewhere along the way it might get fixed but no luck.
Total Toe before 22' (minutes)
Total Toe after 02' Tolerance 05' +- 05'
Camber before LH 05' RH 35'
Camber after LH 37' RH 43' Tolerance 40' +- 30'
Castor before LH 1 degree 21' RH 0 degree 19'
Castor after LH 1 degree 47' RH 1 degree 11'
Tolerance for Castor 1 degree 40' +- 30'
So everything is within tolerance. I also have a Nissan 300zx and the only person I found in the end that I could trust retired so I am having to start all over again. Alignment shops. in my opinion, just do not listen to what they are told and only go on what the machine tells them. It is usually hard to get them to even take a test drive.
I had two alignments done. The second was almost the same as the first with very minor differences (I can't find that one at the moment). Note that after either of them there was no change to the wandering on the road but there was a minor change to the position of the steering wheel at straight ahead. 1st time it was distinctly to the left and after the 2nd one it was to the right by about the same. This was only a few degrees but I get fussy about where the wheel sits. In fact it was to fix the wheel position that I had the 2nd one done.
The 1st alignment was done after steering parts were changed as part of Toyotas recall. They also replaced the Pitman arm and a couple of other things.
However before, during and after parts were replaced and the alignments the wandering remained about the same. I was optimistic that somewhere along the way it might get fixed but no luck.
Total Toe before 22' (minutes)
Total Toe after 02' Tolerance 05' +- 05'
Camber before LH 05' RH 35'
Camber after LH 37' RH 43' Tolerance 40' +- 30'
Castor before LH 1 degree 21' RH 0 degree 19'
Castor after LH 1 degree 47' RH 1 degree 11'
Tolerance for Castor 1 degree 40' +- 30'
So everything is within tolerance. I also have a Nissan 300zx and the only person I found in the end that I could trust retired so I am having to start all over again. Alignment shops. in my opinion, just do not listen to what they are told and only go on what the machine tells them. It is usually hard to get them to even take a test drive.
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warlord225
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: Wellington
the problem is your castor, or lack of.
you want about 3 deg positive castor, and about -1 deg camber.
and also about 0.5mm toe in each side.
also inflate your tyres to about 36psi all round.
try this, and let us know how it went, as a word of warning don't go to tonys, or any general tyre shop, go to a suspention and alignment specialist, and make sure they use those specs.
Don't worry, I didn't make those figuers up this is what I have found works best for IFS Surfs, and it took me 6 years to get to this conclusion
camber isn't so importaint, with wandering, but castor is, just so long as its within about 15 minutes on both side it should be right, and for gods sake pay NO ATTENTION TO SPECS.
All decent alignment shops should test drive before and after, not only to make sure the steering wheel is level, but to find any pulls, or wanders, that is elementry stuff.
where are you located?
you want about 3 deg positive castor, and about -1 deg camber.
and also about 0.5mm toe in each side.
also inflate your tyres to about 36psi all round.
try this, and let us know how it went, as a word of warning don't go to tonys, or any general tyre shop, go to a suspention and alignment specialist, and make sure they use those specs.
Don't worry, I didn't make those figuers up this is what I have found works best for IFS Surfs, and it took me 6 years to get to this conclusion
camber isn't so importaint, with wandering, but castor is, just so long as its within about 15 minutes on both side it should be right, and for gods sake pay NO ATTENTION TO SPECS.
All decent alignment shops should test drive before and after, not only to make sure the steering wheel is level, but to find any pulls, or wanders, that is elementry stuff.
where are you located?
Located in ChCh.
Its interesting that you say to adjust the caster more since I have looked thru all 3 of my Surf manuals and two of them indicate 2 degrees 30' instead of the 1 degree 40'. This would indicate that higher would be better and this matches what you say. One book, depending on model, has two completely different readings. My experience with my 300zx indicates that the operators pick anything that looks vaguely like the model and set it to this.
I do have a 4th manual downloaded from the US and I have just checked that and it also shows 2 degrees 30' so I reckon the locals have got the wrong model in their computers.
Were you possibly going to suggest someone locally ? I could just ask at a couple of 4WD shops (the guys all seem to be enthusiasts) who they use.
Its interesting that you say to adjust the caster more since I have looked thru all 3 of my Surf manuals and two of them indicate 2 degrees 30' instead of the 1 degree 40'. This would indicate that higher would be better and this matches what you say. One book, depending on model, has two completely different readings. My experience with my 300zx indicates that the operators pick anything that looks vaguely like the model and set it to this.
I do have a 4th manual downloaded from the US and I have just checked that and it also shows 2 degrees 30' so I reckon the locals have got the wrong model in their computers.
Were you possibly going to suggest someone locally ? I could just ask at a couple of 4WD shops (the guys all seem to be enthusiasts) who they use.
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warlord225
- Hard Yaka
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:00 pm
- Location: Wellington