Air-Con Pump for an Air Compressor

dazza85 · Post by **dazza85** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:27 pm

I want to make an Air-Con pump into an Air Compressor.

There is lots of info on here which I will be going through again ...

The Plan...

I want to keep my current Air-Con pump 'cause it gets hot here in the summer.

Look at moving the alternator to keep it out of the water and mounting the compressor down there.

Get the cheapest compressor from Super Cheap for the control gear and mount this in the back behind the rear wall card, there is lots of space there and it will protect it.

Mount the tank from the above compressor or a long home made pipe tank between the body and the chassis rails where the step in the body is.

Pipe between it all with flexible tubing as I have a heap of this that was being thrown out .

Mount an outlet in the back and one under the bonnet.

What I need to start is as small a pump as I can find.
It must have a 12v clutch and preferably with pulley and adjustable mounting bracket.

What do people think ??

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:30 pm

just a thought, i have a v-belt a/c pump from a previa van at work
if you want it??

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:05 pm

This may be of some help to you Dazza.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Mazda/Electrics/auction-111832910.htm?p=35

dazza85 · Post by **dazza85** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:20 pm

kiwipete wrote:This may be of some help to you Dazza.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Mazda/Electrics/auction-111832910.htm?p=35

Thats the sort of thing I am looking for but it needs to be V-belt pulley to allow me to drive it with the current v-belt size otherwise I will have to change all the pulleys ... not in the plan.

Thanks for the thought though

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:30 pm

You want to get a Sanden SD-508 compressor and use that, as they have an internal sump, which can be filled up with grease to keep it lubed.

These are the compresssors that "Endless air" convert to make compressors. They can have either v-belt or multi-rib pulleys.

I've got one on my zuk, and its pretty nice. Endless air claim 8cfm @ 100psi.

Just need to take the head off and seal the sump vent with a grub screw and put a grease nipple in the oil drain plug.

I got a 110psi on 150psi off Vair pressure switch of ebay thats about the same size as an arb switch - eg 30mm dia. This is screwed into the tank (a small truck air brake tank) and it controlls a relay that switches the compressor clutch on and off.

I also have it hooked up to an idle up solenoid, so the engine revs up when the compressor kicks in.

Ben

rokhound · Post by **rokhound** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:33 pm

Do these come off a specific vehicle ben? and if so, what sort?
I have an in line oiler on my air con pump, but I have now seized two units due to lack of lube and cooling, so i want to sort out a better system.

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:54 pm

rokhound wrote:Do these come off a specific vehicle ben? and if so, what sort?
I have an in line oiler on my air con pump, but I have now seized two units due to lack of lube and cooling, so i want to sort out a better system.

A quick Google turned this up........
http://www.carpartswholesale.com/cpw/volkswagen~cabriolet~ac_compressor.html

rokhound · Post by **rokhound** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:04 am

Thanks Pete

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:15 am

A lot of european cars have them - eg VW's as in Kiwipetes link. Also they are quite common aftermarket fitment compressors, so if a car was NZ new and had air con installed in NZ they quite often have sanden compressors. I've found a few in Mitsi's for this reason.

Note the one in the pic in that link isn't a SD-508

Here's one:
http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Major_Components/compressors/sanden/010-1700.htm

Ben

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:46 am

Kinda makes me wish I could fit one in the Terrano now. :cry:

rokhound · Post by **rokhound** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:46 pm

I see sanden gear is also factory in LR product. Why is the SD508 the specific unit required Ben? Is it beacuse of the vane setup or soemthing else? This info is really useful and I do appreciate it fella

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:26 pm

The Sanden is ideal because it has a sump / crankcase that can be filled with grease to keep it lubricated, while other compressors don't. Because of that, you don't need an inline oiler.

The Sanden is a 5 piston wobble plate compressor. Apparently vane type compressors are no good for on-board air.

You can also get a SD-510, which is a 5 piston 10 cubic inch compressor, as opposed to the 508 which is a 5 piston 8 cubic inch unit. There are also 7 piston units of similar displacement.
The 508 just seems to be pretty common.

They also have pretty handy lugs for mounting.

Ben

rokhound · Post by **rokhound** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:40 pm

Thanks for that Ben.

niblik · Post by **niblik** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:04 pm

hmmmmmmm was gonna use the air con unit thingee whats it for on board air, but will have to look into this further..

grease is better than oil me thinks for durability, amongst other reasons.. i likey the sound of that..

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:57 pm

dazza85 wrote:
kiwipete wrote:This may be of some help to you Dazza.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Mazda/Electrics/auction-111832910.htm?p=35

Thats the sort of thing I am looking for but it needs to be V-belt pulley to allow me to drive it with the current v-belt size otherwise I will have to change all the pulleys ... not in the plan.

Thanks for the thought though

Here is another one on Tme, Sanden SD7H15 compressor. Brand new. Model 7888 http://www.trademe.co.nz/Business-farming-industry/Other/auction-111506780.htm?p=1

dazza85 · Post by **dazza85** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:01 pm

rokhound wrote:Thanks for that Ben.

Yeah thanks for that Ben,
That is a plan that I like a lot, 'cause I understand that running an oiler has a few issues

And I would have to agree with Niblik:

grease is better than oil me thinks for durability, amongst other reasons.. i likey the sound of that..

BIG_BOY · Post by **BIG_BOY** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:18 pm

have a old supra one here with a sump & a mounting bracket with tensionor pully (singal V with clutch) if your intersted was going to put it in my safari but just dont have the room so i went for a eletric one

dazza85 · Post by **dazza85** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:47 am

BIG_BOY wrote:have a old supra one here with a sump & a mounting bracket with tensionor pully (singal V with clutch) if your intersted was going to put it in my safari but just dont have the room so i went for a eletric one

is that the type they are talking about above ??? with a greaseable sump ...
If so how much do you want for it ??
What would it cost to send to Hastings ??

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:46 pm

Well I got me this one off TMe for $60.00

I know there is stuff all room in the Terrano for it, but im hoping like hell it will be able to be squeezed in there somehow.

Might need some help here.

Not sure if it is of the greasable lubricating type as previously mentioned, hope so.

BIG_BOY · Post by **BIG_BOY** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:20 pm

dazza85 wrote:is that the type they are talking about above ??? with a greaseable sump ...
If so how much do you want for it ??
What would it cost to send to Hastings ??

yep sump has being modifyed for greese
make an offer
um probly $15-20 as its about 15kg

dazza85 · Post by **dazza85** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:41 pm

BIG_BOY wrote:yep sump has being modifyed for greese
make an offer
um probly $15-20 as its about 15kg

PM sent

BIG_BOY · Post by **BIG_BOY** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:38 am

i accually have 3 in the gradge that i would mind out the way theres 2 with 1 bracket & one of the 2nd bracket the one with the angles at the back i have 2 of all 3 pumps can be moved between each brackets one has had greese fitted to it & the other to can have the one is slightly smaller if you need one for a tight area 2 are singal V pullys with tensionors the 3rd is 3PK & i think you can move the pullys all have tensioners with them the 3PK is the slightly smaller one

these were bought for me put air on my truck but ended up going eletric as i dident have the room

also dazza85 has first pic witch bracket & pump he wants

enjoy

i have more pics with sizes ect witch il post up when xtra sorts its shit out took me 30 min for thoes 2 :evil:

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:02 am

Ben wrote:You want to get a Sanden SD-508 compressor and use that, as they have an internal sump, which can be filled up with grease to keep it lubed.

These are the compresssors that "Endless air" convert to make compressors. They can have either v-belt or multi-rib pulleys.

I've got one on my zuk, and its pretty nice. Endless air claim 8cfm @ 100psi.

Just need to take the head off and seal the sump vent with a grub screw and put a grease nipple in the oil drain plug.

I got a 110psi on 150psi off Vair pressure switch of ebay thats about the same size as an arb switch - eg 30mm dia. This is screwed into the tank (a small truck air brake tank) and it controlls a relay that switches the compressor clutch on and off.

I also have it hooked up to an idle up solenoid, so the engine revs up when the compressor kicks in.

Ben

Ben, just a wee query, why remove the oil from the sump and replace it with grease?
Looks like the SD7B10 I got wont be any good as it has no sump visible at all :oops:

, so will go to a wrecker and see if I can do a swap.

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:48 pm

Another question here, what and how are you guys using for the air pressure switch, to enguage the clutch on the AC pump?
I thought of using an old one from small 120V compressor, but it is rather bulky to say the least.
I would like something like this, or an inline one.

Am going with this setup in mind.

But it looks like I need to get another compressor like this one. Or could i use the one I bought and put an oiler inline?

Mattman · Post by **Mattman** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:22 pm

That's exactly what I have done but I also added a trap with regulator so for tools etc I can run off a clean regulated output.

I have an oiler inline on the input from the airbox to the compressor. I wired the pressure switch to the dash aircon switch so that I can turn it on and off.

Matt.

kiwipete · Post by **kiwipete** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:29 pm

Mattman wrote:That's exactly what I have done but I also added a trap with regulator so for tools etc I can run off a clean regulated output.

I have an oiler inline on the input from the airbox to the compressor. I wired the pressure switch to the dash aircon switch so that I can turn it on and off.

Matt.

May I ask what size oiler/water trap etc you used and where you sourced it/them? I dont have a lot of room. :oops:

Also what did you use to shut-off the compressor when pressure was up?

These are the bits that I have yet to source.

Plumbing has been done today though I cannot complete it till I have a compressor and the tank mounted.
Have decided to mount the tank in the spare wheel carrier (read where the wheel actually attaches to the carrier), there is just a small amount of engineering to make it fit. :wink:

mercutio · Post by **mercutio** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:01 pm

i think i read somewhere once about someone using the oil from the oil seperator to fill the lubricator

Mattman · Post by **Mattman** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:03 pm

I used a standard air compressor type regulator with trap. Easily available on trademe etc though I got one without an oiler as I don't want to put oil into the system at that point.

The pressure switch I have is a 90/120 unit which turns on at 90 and off at 120.

Cheers
Matt.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:50 pm

kiwipete wrote:Ben, just a wee query, why remove the oil from the sump and replace it with grease?

The grease is less likely to get past the piston rings and get pumped out by the compressor.

Note if you use a Sanden make sure you take the head off and block the sump breather passage with a grub screw. Otherwise the grease will get pumped through to the intake by the blowby.

Here is the Pressure switch I used.

You could use any compressor you like if you're going to run an oiler, but I dunno how long it will last. I went with a sanden because they are proven, and they don't require an oiler, so it is less complicated and takes up less space.

I run my relief valve screwed directly into the charge port in the back of the head on the compressor. Its a 1/8 BSP relief valve and screws straight in. I figure that is a bit safer than having it at the tank too, in case a hose gets kinked etc.

I then run a overbraided teflon air-con hose to the tank (cos a normal air hose will melt and burst - trust me I've tried it).
The pressure switch is screwed into the tank, and so is a quick connect air coupler. Thats it.

My pressure switch is connected to an illuminated switch in the dash that glows when the compressor is switched on. This turns the clutch on and off, and also triggers a vacuum idle up solenoid that cracks the throttle open to increse the revs.

I'm probably going to add a oil/water separator after the compressor, as compressing air makes quite a bit of moisture. I may also have to add a cooler (air con radiator or oil cooler) to cool the compressed air before it goes into the separator to stop it melting it. The separator is rated to 60 degC and the oitgoing air can get pretty hot on a hot day.

Ben

Mattman · Post by **Mattman** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:00 pm

Where did you get the idle solinoid from Ben as that is my next project to add idle up capabilities to the system.

Matt.