turbo advice for safari

mudhunt · Post by **mudhunt** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:43 pm

ive finally wrangled up a bit of cash to turbo my pig. Dont get me wrong the patrol is a great truck but a gutless bitch as a standard 4.2 diesel. WHo has turboed theirs? what were the dos and donts. Iwas going to get an aftermarket kit but was guna cost a fortune so we have decided to go custom. Intentions are to use a turbo {t3 garrett} most prob front mount intercooler 3" exhaust and a new 3" stainless snorkel. Any info and advice would be great

Goose · Post by **Goose** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:13 pm

One thing I had heard about the non-turbo 4.2's is that if you make a big-arsed intake with a big-arsed air filter (without a turbo) that they go a crapload better. might be worth looking into..... :wink:

PigFmr · Post by **PigFmr** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:31 pm

Goose wrote:One thing I had heard about the non-turbo 4.2's is that if you make a big-arsed intake with a big-arsed air filter (without a turbo) that they go a crapload better. might be worth looking into.....

yep i have done this 3inch snorkel, straight onto the air filter with one bend and i use a UNI FILTER (foam), and it goes heaps better, and alot less black smoke and getting better kms on fuel, as i run 35's aswell did not seem that different from 33's, until i go up a long hill then the old tart struggles,
did have a airflow snorkel before to many joins and bends,
mind you when i get round to i am going use a super charger instead of a turbo
vince

KiwiBacon · Post by **KiwiBacon** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:31 pm

Another suitable turbo is the T28, it's more modern and cheaper to rebuild if things turn to crap ($100 for a kit off ebay).
T3's cover a huge range, what exhaust A/R has your one got?

mudhunt · Post by **mudhunt** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:57 am

i havent bought the turbo yet im looking at different options the manifold is being made at the moment but without turbo flange. I really putting it out there so i can hear from other successful turbo upgrades to figure out exactly which way we go. Is the t28 quite abit smaller though?

GQTROL · Post by **GQTROL** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:24 am

Mine uses CT-26 turbo from Celica GT-4. Turboed 1HDT-T Landcruiser uses same turbo, but with steel exh wheel instead of ceramic and is well suited, so no surprises it goes well on the TD42 as they are similar engine.

Otherwise, Mitsi TD05 as used in the DTS kit by MTQ is very well suited and easily upgraded / hi-flowed at a later date if you want more puff.

After been down the custom route, next time I would just get the DTS kit and hi-flow it. Much less fuss, kit has everything you need, just bolt it up and go.

mudhunt · Post by **mudhunt** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:28 am

thanks yeah i was guna get a kit but they all seem so pricey. How much is the dts kit? i was guna buy the aps safari kit but too dear. If i could get a kit delivered to my door for round 3500 id be into it but i dont think i can

KiwiBacon · Post by **KiwiBacon** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:21 am

mudhunt wrote:i havent bought the turbo yet im looking at different options the manifold is being made at the moment but without turbo flange. I really putting it out there so i can hear from other successful turbo upgrades to figure out exactly which way we go. Is the t28 quite abit smaller though?

The T3's range in size from too small to too big. The T28 series also comes in a range of sizes, but fits roughly the mid to top end of the T3 series.
The T28 was originally a T25 turbine with a 60mm T3 compressor wheel and housing. It's since morphed into it's own line.
The T2860 with a 0.64 A/R turbine housing is about perfect airflow wise for a 4.2L diesel.

If you want to search through the http://www.outerlimits4x4.com forums you'll find plenty of information on fitting T28's to 4.2 nissans. There is a kit available which uses the T28 and a 0.86 A/R turbine housing, but in my opinion that's too big and will take too many revs to generate boost.

I'm running a T25 with a 0.48 A/R turbine housing on my Isuzu 3.9L, it holds 19psi with no problems.

GQTROL · Post by **GQTROL** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:21 pm

mudhunt wrote:thanks yeah i was guna get a kit but they all seem so pricey. How much is the dts kit? i was guna buy the aps safari kit but too dear. If i could get a kit delivered to my door for round 3500 id be into it but i dont think i can

Prices have been a bit over $3500 for the kit in the past, but with better exchange rate lately you should be able to have it for less than that now. Simple enough to fit yourself, then get PitStop etc to finish the 3" exh.

mudhunt · Post by **mudhunt** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:56 pm

interesting you sound like you know your stuff kiwibacon. I visited another turbo mechanic today and he showed me these huge turbos i wish that i had a better base knowledge.

KiwiBacon · Post by **KiwiBacon** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:12 pm

mudhunt wrote:interesting you sound like you know your stuff kiwibacon. I visited another turbo mechanic today and he showed me these huge turbos i wish that i had a better base knowledge.

Don't take my word for it though, ask around too.
I'd suggest getting the turbo mounted and working without the intercooler first, fit that at your leisure.
Don't let anyone turn up the fuel without fitting an exhaust gas temp gauge first. It's easy to melt pistons with too much fuel.

mudhunt · Post by **mudhunt** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:21 pm

yeah ive been told that tuning is a fine thing lots of people turn the fuel up and cook motors straight away. The axt kit has a t28 and is reasonably priced

GQTROL · Post by **GQTROL** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:04 pm

mudhunt wrote:The axt kit has a t28 and is reasonably priced

But its exh size is too small and top-end performance is poor compared to others out there. The AXT kit makes for a very responsive setup, great for towing big loads etc.

Been there, done that.

rangimotors · Post by **rangimotors** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:10 pm

you can buy something like a td05 for 200 dollars and an intercooler for 200-500 a bit of piping and a manifold. excuse my lack of knowledge but what else do you need? 3500 sounds pretty expensive considering the prices you can get good second hand turbo's etc for..

gary_in_nz · Post by **gary_in_nz** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:14 pm

why not spend another 3 - 4 grand and get a LS1 V8 thrown in, you should be able to get one from somewhere for less than 4k and say spend 2-3 getting it in the safari, god knows there is enough space and the running gear should handle ok?? thats my eventual plan any way!!

KiwiBacon · Post by **KiwiBacon** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:31 pm

GQTROL wrote:
mudhunt wrote:The axt kit has a t28 and is reasonably priced

But its exh size is too small and top-end performance is poor compared to others out there. The AXT kit makes for a very responsive setup, great for towing big loads etc.

Been there, done that.

What size exhaust are you talking?
Turbo size is a compromise between high end and low end. I much prefer the low end.

GQTROL · Post by **GQTROL** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:43 pm

KiwiBacon wrote:What size exhaust are you talking?

Turbo size is a compromise between high end and low end. I much prefer the low end.

Whatever exh housing and wheel the kit came with, and 3" exhaust with straight through muffler. It adds very little to the top end, if anything at all. Have never measured the dump pipe dia, but I believe it is simply strangling it.

The TD05H-16G or and CT-26 are almost as responsive, but performs significantly better at the top end.

For a "do everything" setup, something that size would be my pick.

doby · Post by **doby** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:53 pm

Im about to do the same thing. Got a new tdo5h for the job, but not sure weather i should moderfy the standed manifold or start agane and gat something made for the job. Eney hints

GQTROL · Post by **GQTROL** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:54 pm

rangimotors wrote:you can buy something like a td05 for 200 dollars and an intercooler for 200-500 a bit of piping and a manifold. excuse my lack of knowledge but what else do you need? 3500 sounds pretty expensive considering the prices you can get good second hand turbo's etc for..

Cost depends on how much of it you have to pay someone else to do.

Reco 2nd hand turbo, incl new seals, gaskets, balance etc - $500,
Tubular manifold - $1000,
New exh manifold gaskets - $100,
New exh manifold studs - $25,
Braided oil feed line, incl fittings - $150,
Oil return line, incl fittings - $50,
Fabricated cross-over pipe and flexible join - $150,
Fabricated dump pipe - $300,
Mods to air-cleaner to suit - $100,
Odds and ends - $100

mudhunt · Post by **mudhunt** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:57 pm

v8 was never an option for one its too expensive and requires serious mods to fit. Also i go to the coast alot and the fuel bill would be phenomenal!!!! Thanks everyone for all the info keep it coming! Ok talked to my installer today, exhaust size is 3" but were you meaning exhaust housing size? Im going to see phil from turbo works wednesday to find the right turbo for me. We have purchased a t3 flange just got to pick the size that we want now. As far as the comments go about second hand gear thanks i do realise that it would be cheaper but i dont want problems with second hand gear id rather do it right first time. the ct26 is from an 80 series right whats the tdo5-16g from is it from a large mitsi

mudhunt · Post by **mudhunt** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:02 pm

my mate is doing the work and i will help where i can but im useless under a bonnet! but always learning. Also into that cost sheet we have to factor in an air to air front mount cooler and full 3" exhaust. Also the snorkel i think we will be close to budget but hard to say at this stage. Whats the td05 from a vr4

doby · Post by **doby** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:03 pm

Yep td05-16g is a mitsi evo turbo im prity sure

GQTROL · Post by **GQTROL** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:22 pm

There are a whole host of vehicles those turbos came out in (in various forms). Yes 80 Series Cruiser is one the CT-26 is one, Celica GT-4 is another. TD05H included GSR/Evo to GT3000 (aka Dodge Stealth).

What ever you decide to go with, allow enough funds for a decent boost gauge and and pyro to keep an eye on EGT's, even if it means putting a hold on the intercooler until you're flush again.

rangimotors · Post by **rangimotors** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:23 pm

yea be careful talking td05's because they did come in different models and sizes, came on early subaru sti's, vr4's, gsr's and evo 1 2 and 3 but each turbo is different and priced to suit. picked up a good second hand tdo5 from a vr4 which has no play and needs no work for 200 on weekend but a flat mate sold his one for 50 which was working great etc but not as good condition. Myself i that would be the turbo i would use they are only cheap because everyone with a evo or vr4 upgrades them to something bigger. and at least you no that you can always find one if you shag it and just bolt it on.

rangimotors · Post by **rangimotors** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:29 pm

for more info ask steve_t647 since rumours have it he's come across one or two...

or check out http://www.msport.co.nz/ the guys no alot and often have a few for sale.

tgaguy1 · Post by **tgaguy1** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:28 pm

Mudhunt, if you truck is a manual; you will have to budget for a Safari tough or 4terrain clutch. The Nissan clutch will last a couple of months before it will require replacement.
If you research http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/ you will find lots of specs for turbos for fitment to TD42's.
The consensus seams to be about a 0.48 A/R compressor and a 0.82 -0.84 A/R turbine. You will get away with a 0.62 A/R turbine, but you will have slightly higher back pressure so you will wear the turbine and housing quicker or have to run slightly less performance to reduce you EGT's.
The rule of thumb is "for every 100 deg c you increase your turbine inlet temp (TIT) you increase your wear on the turbine 20 times." Likewise if you decrease TIT you decrease wear.

Hope that helps

mudhunt · Post by **mudhunt** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:14 pm

once again thanks to all, im getting a heap of handy info which will hopefully take me down the right path. I have allowed for a heavy duty clutch clutch systems in chch do one for 500

KiwiBacon · Post by **KiwiBacon** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:37 pm

tgaguy1 wrote:The consensus seams to be about a 0.48 A/R compressor and a 0.82 -0.84 A/R turbine. You will get away with a 0.62 A/R turbine, but you will have slightly higher back pressure so you will wear the turbine and housing quicker or have to run slightly less performance to reduce you EGT's.
The rule of thumb is "for every 100 deg c you increase your turbine inlet temp (TIT) you increase your wear on the turbine 20 times." Likewise if you decrease TIT you decrease wear.

Hope that helps

If you run a bigger turbine housing (bigger A/R) then you will have to restrict your fuelling more due to more smoke off-boost.
EGT's are tied to boost, the more boost you run, the lower the EGT's are for any given fuel (power) level. A smaller A/R housing actually runs more excess air (up to wastegate opening point) and cooler EGT's.
Not to mention less smoke too.
The increase in backpressure is marginal and the idea of wearing out a turbine with higher temps isn't true at all. I have a turbo that has done over 300,000km, it hasn't worn visibly or measurably.

Compressor A/R is generally not something you have a choice over. The compressor A/R is matched to the wheel inside by the turbo maker, different trim and diameter wheels have different A/R's housings.

mudhunt · Post by **mudhunt** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:51 pm

ok im meeting with a turbo salesman tomorrow, so what exactly am i looking for?

gimmemud · Post by **gimmemud** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:22 pm

Wouldn't you want a top mount intercooler :?:

just thinking of all the mud and crap that will get in there when 4wheeling with front mount??