Paper Road Society

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:39 pm

Update from Andy Cockroft, anyone interested please contact Andy below....

The Paper Road Society needs to move forward and become incorporated

To do so, I need 15 people to sign a piece of paper agreeing to the
incorporation

Believe it or not, I have no desire to be President - too restrictive

So, we need Chairman, Secretary and Treasurer as volunteers - plus members
(at least 15)

How many out there are willing to get involved, stand up and be counted

I can source people by shoulder-tapping in Wellington - but that would not
be representative - and could be seen as me stacking the Society with
hand-picked supporters.

No, I want transparency

Volunteer and we will sign you up

How about Peter Vahry for president? Someone else - just don't pick me,

Then again, I need to be free to speak my mind. This is an aggressive
society - if you ain't in to confrontation -stay away - don't try and cage
me !!!

All you volunteers - get of yer arse - get involved

Cheers

Andy

http://www.prs.org.nz
andic@andic.co.nz.

warlord225 · Post by **warlord225** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:16 pm

what this all about, what paper roads?

Cloggy_NZ · Post by **Cloggy_NZ** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:23 pm

What is a Paper Road and can people use it?

Unformed roads or paper roads were created to provide frontages for sections and have a similar status to other legal roads.

All paper roads are legal roads. The only maintenance work carried out by the Council is ensuring that vegetation does not create fire hazard. Paper and unformed roads are the same. Formed means a proper roadway for vehicles to travel either sealed or unsealed.

Everyone can have access on paper or unformed legal road either on foot or by vehicles, however it is unlikely that vehicles can access these roads as they are "virgin ground". If an accident occurs the driver will likely to be prosecuted as traffic rules do apply.

warlord225 · Post by **warlord225** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:26 pm

where?

Cloggy_NZ · Post by **Cloggy_NZ** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:33 pm

A good local example is Johnson's Road in Upper Hutt.
Read about it on Andy's site here:
http://andic.co.nz/id21.htm
This was a bit of a landmark case where the Upper Hutt City Council was taken to court and the 4x4 movement won the case.( in this particular case represented but no necessarily limited to ARAC, NZFWDA and CCVC, other individuals and groups where involved as well).

nuts · Post by **nuts** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:47 pm

hmmmmmm... so there is a paper road going from karamea to takaka.. but washouts block it and doc pac a shit if u even mention trying to drive it .... wt would this do to help?????

Cloggy_NZ · Post by **Cloggy_NZ** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:55 pm

nuts wrote:hmmmmmm... so there is a paper road going from karamea to takaka.. but washouts block it and doc pac a shit if u even mention trying to drive it .... wt would this do to help?????

DOC can pack a shit but they can't legally stop you.
What helps is bringing it out into the open, if you are in a club down there get a couple of your mates together and attempt to drive it.
After the courtcase was won in Upper Hutt CCVC organised a trip up the paper road. This involved cutting a fence with bolt cutters etc. Police were involved to protect the rights of the four wheel drivers involved to drive the paper road and to ensure there was no trouble from local land owners.
As the road wasn't visible at that stage GPS had to be used to ensure they stuck to the paper road and didn't wander onto private property.
All very exciting at the time.

nuts · Post by **nuts** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:44 pm

the prob is there is no road as such its vergin bush
and they try to do mountain bikers too lol

nuts · Post by **nuts** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:47 pm

ops for got to say allot of the road would take months of continual wrk to get thru and it goes thru abletasman national park following the walking track in places

albundy · Post by **albundy** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:13 pm

ops for got to say allot of the road would take months of continual wrk to get thru and it goes thru abletasman national park following the walking track in places

Sunds like a bloody gooood trip too me

where do I sign up

, need an excuse to quit work :lol:

Al

Mortisha · Post by **Mortisha** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:45 pm

Wasn't that route from Karamea actually planned as a road originally but never got actioned ????

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:39 pm

Hence its paper road status.

Paper roads are those on your 1:50,000 map marked with long dashed black lines.(walking tracks are the short dashed lines)

These are the very tracks we all use for 4wheeling. Worslys Spur that the Chch members use frequently is a prime example. There are thousands of other paper roads throughout the country.

For Nuts, the tour bus that heads down beach from Tauranga Bay, accross the lagoon and comes out around Virgin flat follows a paper road. I tried to drive that one and got a bollocking. There is also another that heads up into old logging roads at the bottom of the hill from Cape Foulwind just after the Costello reserve sign towards Greymouth. I headed in there once following my GPS and got threatened out of there with some bugger waving a shot gun :lol:

I showed him where i was on the map in relation to my GPS, but he insisted it was a private road :roll:

Thats the kinda shit that the paper road society may be able to prevent, as well as us losing the right to have access to paper roads, or worse, the roads get handed to the land owners and we lose them altogether. Then where would we play??

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:12 pm

Post on Andy's behalf....if you want to donate anything to this please do so, I have donated $10, a guy on the NZ4wd forum in Canada just donated $100, consider approaching your club committee for a small donation .... every little bit helps.....join the society as well...its free to join...the more people we have the bigger voice we have.....

There are costs to setup, eg $100 to incorporate a society, $300 to join coranz etc....

Andy:

After long and arduous discussion with my friendly Bank Manager, it seems it is not possible to open an account in the Society's name until I actually get the Certificate of Incorporation.

So, as a compromise, we opened a new account under my name - it's not ideal - but it's the best we could do

So Banking Details (pro tem):

Andy Cockroft (PRS Account)
ANZ Bank
Lambton Quay
Wellington

A/C 01 0517 0353001 01

All money that has been handed to me to date (yes includes Jerry's) has
been deposited there - and as soon as I get the certificate, I will open a Society account and transfer all monies across

Internet Banking would be a good way to get money to us.

Cheers - and thanks for all the support

Andy
andic@andic.co.nz

Cloggy_NZ · Post by **Cloggy_NZ** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:01 pm

Jerry wrote:Post on Andy's behalf....

Got to ask the question why Andy doesn't post on here himself. He was the 3rd and 4th person to join up way back in 2002 it seems, and yes he has two accounts

Although he has never made a post.

Still not trying to distract from the cause. Get in behind this guys, visit the PRS site, learn some more about it ( I need to as well ) and take some simple action like writing letters to your local council objecting any potential paper road closures in your area. On the PRS site there is a link to a discussion forum just like this one. On there you will find a long list of roads under threat. Lets do something about it.

warlord225 · Post by **warlord225** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:12 pm

it looks like all of the roads up the akatarawas are public roads, according to the wises maps.

Cloggy_NZ · Post by **Cloggy_NZ** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:27 pm

Cloggy_NZ wrote: On the PRS site there is a link to a discussion forum just like this one. On there you will find a long list of roads under threat.

http://prs.org.nz/phpbb2/viewforum.php? ... 130ab00554

Also see there are quite a few recognisable names from this site on the PRS memberlist already :wink:

nuts · Post by **nuts** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:44 pm

hell im in if we can get enuf ppl to come nelson via karamea sounds good 2 me :twisted:

if da greenies can do shit to stop us havin fun well we got a road to build lol

Andic · Post by **Andic** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:35 pm

Frankly forgot I had an account - but the memory jogger from Cloggy reminded me of visiting ORE when it first formed - way back when.

However, the Paper Road Society is a bit of a passion for me. I felt tied down by formal Clubs and the Association - when trying to open up roads only to find Clubs being blackmailed into trying to silence me

So, PRS is formed - it has no affiliation to any Clubs and vice versa (although we'll happily take yer money - even anonymous I care not a jot) - we can't be blackmailed - although attempts have already been made regarding one road across DOC-administered lands (I prefer these words - we own it not DOC - they just "administer it")

Be very wary about definitions of a road - the 1:50,000 260 series map is NOT a definitive guide - far from it - it is downright misleading. All this shows is where tracks and trails physically are - not their lawful purpose. The old 261 series cadastral map was better - but like hens-teeth nowadays.

You need accurate data - such as Quickmap etc - and regular updates to even begin finding lawful roads - and even then - the only truly definitive answer lies with LINZ. So research in their databases is often vital.

If you have questions about specific roads and places, feel free to post them on the PRS web site http://prs.org.nz

Heh just realised - my first post on ORE !!!!!

Cheers

Andy

Jerry · Post by **Jerry** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:46 pm

Thanks Andy, If people have questions they can PM or email you at andic@andic.co.nz as well, there are other Landrover owners on here as well :roll:

so don't be afraid to visit ... they won't bite. (and the rest of us) :lol:

You are always welcome to join any of our trips or at the next drink/talk bullshit nites. :lol:

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:59 am

^^ What he said, good to have you on deck Andy

Reckon i might join up, what about the rest of you lot??

access4WD · Post by **access4WD** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:21 am

Andy
It is good that you post to the forum in your own right. Pleased to see it.

People in general though need to remember that Paper Roads are not an automatic right to drive, and the term paper road is a general term and covers many aspects of crown land. A paper road is in place down rivers and foreshore areas that actually means the queens chain, in other areas they are there as marginal strips and in other places they are there to allow for the possibility of a actual road. Then there is confusion under the public works act as to who is responsible for that land, and the management of the land. A lot of people jump up and down as a result of a case that occurred in the Hutt over the movement of a paper road, and some people actually miss read the judgement and have jumped to some interesting conclusions.
It would take up to much time here alone to do the detail, suffice to say and emphasise that a paper road is not a right necessarily to drive it. If we put 100 lawyers and 100 surveyors into a room there would be an outcome of 200 differing opinions about paper roads, so it is simply not black and white. (let alone chuck in 100 local body council employees)
Each road must be looked at on a case by case basis, and that is where the Paper Road Society Andy is promoting is a worthwhile cause and has a lot of value.
Good luck Andy.
Paul

Andic · Post by **Andic** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:36 am

Yes, the research needs to be quite thorough before you start cutting gates etc !!!!!

Dedication is the main guiding principle, as is the act of Prescription (no not taking drugs) and of course the Queen's Chain is simply a colloquial expression to describe public accessways in general not necessarily true "roads" - some are - some aren't

Truly dedicated roads do carry with them the right to drive - but you may not damage the road surface - although you can cut vegetation - so wheelspin is a big no-no if you really want to be safe.

That's why at PRS we do the research on each piece of dirt to determine its lawful status - and even then the records can be unclear - see Stony Batter on Waiheke Island for instance.

But we cannot do research if we don't know about these roads causing you concern - so post please on the PRS site http://prs.org.nz - I can't guarantee to monitor everything here - my time is taken up quite fully just doing "my thing"

But your help can make a huge difference. At present, sorry I need cash, but above all I need the information to make all this work

Cheers

Andy

BrentC · Post by **BrentC** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:42 am

access4WD wrote:People in general though need to remember that Paper Roads are not an automatic right to drive, and the term paper road is a general term and covers many aspects of crown land.

Whereas the Walking Access Consultation Panel report to the Minister states

[quote]The Panel considers that it is clear that unformed legal roads (or â€œpaper
roadsâ€

DieselBoy · Post by **DieselBoy** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:53 am

Rad

Really worth joining the society when you see reports like that being produced with case law to back it up!!!!!

Post by **mike** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:51 pm

Heh just realised - my first post on ORE !!!!!

And your one of the oldest members :wink:

I can't guarantee to monitor everything here - my time is taken up quite fully just doing "my thing"

Likewise, what little free time I have at the moment is split between many things including the maintenance of this site. I had quick look through prs site and like what I saw and would like to get more involved but at the moment I have to many things on the go

One thing I noticed is that you run the same forum software and I would be interested in investigating auto cross posting to a PRS announcement forum here on ORE from your forum. That way any new posts in the prs forum appear as a link to the new topic on your site on ORE Then the prs forum automatically gets ORE traffic to new posts creating a greater awareness.

Just a thought,

keep up the good work
Mike

Post by **Mark** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:37 pm

I would be interested in investigating auto cross posting to a PRS announcement forum here on ORE from your forum.

That's a really good idea. It will give PRS threads much more visibility. I don't really like the idea of logging into PRS as well to check what's going on over there... I spend enough time on here! To have the PRS new posts come up here would be excellent!

ps, I signed up as a member with PRS on Wednesday night under duress from Jerry! It must have been the beer that made me drop my guard :wink:

Andic · Post by **Andic** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:37 pm

I would be interested in investigating auto cross posting to a PRS announcement forum here on ORE from your forum

Excellent idea - trouble is most of the software I know about is there to hunt down and delete cross-posts - not create them!

Any idea how to do it? I'm waiting for PHPBB 3.0 RC to come along - but I don't think that'll have anything to help

Cheers

Andy

Andic · Post by **Andic** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:30 pm

DOC Debrief on Mountains to Sea Recreational Conference http://prs.org.nz/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=54

Andic · Post by **Andic** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:12 am

A cross-post from the NZ4WD forum - just a note to say thanks

Just a quick thank you to all who have contributed to the cause of getting PRS Incorporated and letting us move forward

Thereâ€™s enough there right now to pay the Incorporation, and weâ€™re well on the way to having enough funds to allow us to affiliate to CORANZ â€“ which will give us an even greater voice

Thanks again one and all

Andy

Andic · Post by **Andic** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:49 am

http://prs.org.nz/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=56
http://prs.org.nz/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=57
http://prs.org.nz/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=55

The latter one is quite interesting as Poronui Station has been closed for eons, but new overseas owners although still denying lawful access along a legal road, are at least willing to compromise with the Hunting Fraternity

Paper Road Society

Paper Road Society

paper road

Re: paper road

paper road

paper road

the road

Why Don't I post ?

Spot on Paul

But How?

First Cross-Post to PRS

Thanks for all teh Dosh

New Posts on PRS