darinz wrote: If you want strong IFS then most are using Chevy uprights and CV's but if you are really serious then about US$15k will buy you an unbreakable (ish) IFS that will handle big hp and 42's.
Do you have a link? I've spent a lot of time trying to find solutions but haven't seen anything for sale.
the argument between solid and ifs are two very opinionated topics.
i personally went the solid route, after getting anoid with ifs in the terrano, but it doesnt drive as nice now, (looks the biz though) but i went for a drive in a few solid axle trucks first to make sure thats what i wanted.
definitly takes alot of research and thinking twice.
my next truck i would probably keep it ifs just to be different, plus the nicer road driving.
Yeah it's interesting alright. I tossed this around then realised the size of the project. I would need a custom chassis, custom suspension to retain good articulation. The next issue was that Independent suspension is still in in infancy for the 4x4 so I would probably end up with a few different versions to test different geometry. Basically to much time, too much money and not enough knowledge for me at the moment.
Please disregard consumer IFS systems as these are heavily compromised, I talking about something like on Shannon Campbell's ultra4 rig.
I still think where high speed up and down wheel travel is involved IS could bring some real advantages but needs someone with the time, money and know how to develop and test it.
churchill wrote:I still think where high speed up and down wheel travel is involved IS could bring some real advantages but needs someone with the time, money and know how to develop and test it.
and thats the day i will build a 4wd trophy truck
maybe if they used 3 cvs instead of just two?
would cause far less angles compared to what there is now.
Crash bandicoot wrote:why go higher then the rear diff housing? the way i see it if the truck is going to get hung up on the rear diff why make the front any higher.
On that point nissan R20/R50 IFS has more clearance from factory then toyota hilux and a mitsi pajero so takes less lift to get the same clearances.
The Toyota guys in the US use Porsche 930 inner CVs, custom shafts and chromoly outers for their long travel IFS setups. These do massive angles. Not sure about the control arms etc, but the axle buildup is pretty straightforward if you have the parts.
I guess the reality of it is that IFS is here to stay.
I agree its definately a compromised system, but 4x4 ability aside - ie the fact that solid axles comply w/the terrain so much better - I'm confident most IFS vehicles can be setup to be durable and reliable.
Off the shelf that Gen II Pajero IFS really is fantastic engineering.
TOYOTA - The Official Vehicle of ISIS! And makers of the '92 Camry, where you got your first backseat handjob.
If you watch any of the Madram videos of Jordan Tanner, Showtime etc. and any of those other monsters you'll see that the unsprung weight looks like its so heavy that the suspension struggles to work properly. The only real springs are the tyres and they're undamped hence why they bounce so much. The KOH trucks are getting the same way as well, a lot of axle bouncing goes on in that race. When the wheels are in the air there's no traction from them.
I did a rough calculation and found that a panhard rod suspension kicked a truck side ways with 100kg of force when the front wheels are lifted over a 200mm obstacle at an average driving speed (10km/h I think it was). Due to the asymmetary of the suspension setup it only happens in one direction. This of course depends on how you set the panhard up but I just went off the average setup.
3 cv's is an interesting idea. I see you can get diffs that put the inner cv's back to back so the axles are as long as possible.
for the amount of time and money invested in that buggy it doesnt even get that much wheel travel,hummer is the only good independent set up ive seen,i had a few ifs 4x4's and went to a soft sprung solid axle 4x4 in the end for what i do.on the other hand i have one of the last beam axle hilux's for my work vehicle and it a shocker to drive on the road.i have watched my mates gen 1 paj on 34 swamper's do lots of stuff that would of destroyed other front ends solid or ifs.you could use the rear diff head out of a supra as they fit the hilux heads in them, custom axles and a arms and paj cv's hub's ,would be quite a strong set up.
Yeah spanky its not bad, scroll through to some of the earlier posts and have a look at it on the forklift.
The hummer is probably one of the best so far. Personally I think its still compromised with the short swing arm on that steep angle but the portal axles are a very nice touch.
your right about the portals, that or huge tyres only way to get the lower arms out of the crap,used to be a trials truck with a cool front ifs set up,think it was a paj jnr,had the head up high with long axles and lower arms,that buggy has some serious engineering going on though.
Yeah I think portals would be a great help, it's possible to use the hummer units on another rig. The advantage I can is that the ground clearance would increase but you would adversely effect the un-sprung weight. You would use this depending on the application
Longer half shafts are defiantly one of the keys to good articulation. Check out this back to back CV diff/spool
Trophy truck with 4wd... Thats gotta be good! Its strange that for such a low traction sport that requires sharp turns the lack of 4wd. I wonder how long before we start seeing active diffs in them like the old rally cars.
